IRCloggy #perl6 2016-01-26

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	2016-01-26
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autarch	AlexDaniel: I think I missed that	00:03
AlexDaniel	autarch: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2016-01-25#i_11939486	00:04
	autarch: no loop required, no nothing! As simple as that	00:04
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autarch	AlexDaniel: yeah, that seems better	00:07
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gtodd	Bags are fascinating :)	00:53
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gtodd	I wish Set::Bag (p5) could automagically count like that	01:03
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Herby_	Evening, everyone!	01:09
	o/	01:09
lucs	How do I get the started process's PID after doing ｢Proc::Async.new(⋯).start｣?	01:09
leont	.pid on the Proc::Async?	01:10
lucs	Hmm...	01:10
	(trying)	01:10
	No such method.	01:11
	I also got nowhere trying to work with the promise returned by ｢start｣.	01:12
leont	Ah!	01:14
	The result of the promise is a Proc, which has a .pid method	01:14
	No idea how to get it before the process has finished though	01:14
konobi	$$ in either?	01:15
lucs	That's kind of the problem :/	01:15
	(And even when it has finished, all I seem to get is a PID of 0.)	01:15
	konobi: Not sure what you mean..	01:16
leont	konobi: $$ is $*PID	01:16
konobi	sure	01:16
	that's why you have a conditional after a fork... one should continue on... the other should just be in the background	01:17
leont	That's not how Proc::Async works	01:17
	And I agree with lucs that it not giving the pid is an issue	01:17
konobi	ugh... not sure how perl6 async works yet	01:18
	i'm pretty sure i have a few holes to jab at there... =0/	01:18
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timotimo	hey Herby_	02:04
	was that talk i showed to you of interest?	02:04
Herby_	\o	02:04
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Herby_	Absolutely! Pretty cool stuff for sure	02:05
timotimo	cool & scary	02:05
Herby_	been meaning to talk to my hospital's biomed department to see if they have any old hardware I can poke around with	02:05
timotimo	the whole "internet of things" movement is very, very scary from a security & failure perspective	02:05
adu	timotimo: there are already people who have died from Pacemaker/Wifi accidents	02:06
Herby_	yeah, very exciting and scary times	02:06
adu	Herby_: how's it going?	02:07
Herby_	It's coming along. Have you thawed out yet?	02:07
timotimo	adu: even without biotech in the equation, IoT is very scary	02:08
	remember very recently when "nest" thermometers/thermostats/thingies failed for some reason?	02:08
	in america, at a time when it was very, very cold outside?	02:08
	people were unable to log in for some stupid reason	02:08
Herby_	did they get to play in artic warfare conditions? :)	02:09
	aka the heat dont work	02:09
	timotimo translates to a different place	02:09
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Herby_	timotimo, its kind of like the cars that are getting smarter	02:11
	you see that article about the jeep cherokee getting hacked while driving down the road?	02:11
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timotimo	yeah	02:22
	that was about engineers going at developing a system connected to a network without them knowing about security	02:22
	maximize profits as much as you can get away with	02:23
Herby_	yep	02:23
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timotimo	that's why we're lucky to have independent security researchers find those things and smack the greedy up-highs on the fingers every now and again	02:23
geekosaur	also why the greedy up-highs keep trying to get independent security research like that declared illegal	02:24
ZoffixWin	m: sub term:<🕋> { say "42" }; 🕋	02:24
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«42␤»	02:24
ZoffixWin	Emoji subs :)	02:24
timotimo	geekosaur: i'm pretty sure they won't be trying that for long	02:24
Herby_	Zoffix!	02:24
	o/	02:24
geekosaur	they've been trying it for years. thankfully that means there is now considerable precedent in favor of the researchers	02:24
ZoffixWin	\o	02:24
geekosaur	at least in the US. but as corporations get more and more powerful in the US, I wonder how long that will last	02:25
timotimo	hmm	02:25
	these trans-* pacts are pretty scary	02:25
	trans-atlantic and trans-pacific, right?	02:26
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Herby_	ok. rookie question time: using json::fast, how do I pretty print something?	02:38
timotimo	to-json([1, 2, 3], :pretty)	02:38
MadcapJake	i thought the default was pretty?	02:40
Herby_	I don't I'm asking it right... RottenTomatoes has an API which returns JSON content	02:40
	I want to print it out pretty	02:40
	instead of this blob	02:40
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timotimo	oh	02:43
	in that case you have to parse it with from-json and then print it with to-json	02:43
	if it's a blob, you may have to decode it with some encoding first. most probably utf-8	02:44
Herby_	you're the man :)	02:46
	that seems to work	02:46
llfourn	when you have "Ambiguous call to infix<blah>", where blah is your own custom infix, is there a way to specify who should win in a tiebreaker?	02:46
skids	llfourn: "is default" can designate a preferred candidate. Or you can play tricks like $ where { True }.	02:51
llfourn	skids: excellent thanks!	02:53
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Herby_	so, if I'm using HTTP::UserAgent to retrieve a web page, how would I decode/encode that? Right now, I'm getting the content but when I try to spurt it to a text file, I get a "malformed utf-8" file	02:53
	well, i'm getting the content and converting it to-json, then trying to spurt it	02:54
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skids	Herby_: the defacto www standard encoding, if the headers do not specify otherwise, is windows-1252 (even if iso8859-1 is specified in the headers, as a special case)	03:00
ZoffixWin	m: print "I'm a Perl ", 5 + !!"0", " program."	03:00
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«I'm a Perl 6 program.»	03:00
ZoffixWin	Run that in Perl 5 and it'll say "Perl 5" :) https://twitter.com/zoffix/status/691817871446511617	03:00
	ZoffixWin suspects they're the only one who's excited with it and decides to move on ^_^	03:01
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skids	ZoffixWin: that is cute	03:02
ZoffixWin	:)	03:02
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ZoffixWin	I'm curious of the length you could take this to: (a) one program that runs with both P5 and P6 and does the same thing in both; or (b) one program that runs with both, but does a completely different thing :)	03:04
	Juerd considers beginning a Rosetta-like thing, maybe in book form, for a very limited number of languages, and only language features, not full programs or "problems"	03:04
ZoffixWin	Sounds neat, but maybe not in a book form	03:06
llfourn	Jured, I like that idea	03:06
Juerd	When I say "book", feel free to read "PDF"	03:06
	But what I'm thinking of, is a fixed size layout	03:06
ZoffixWin	I sorta envision this could become some sort of a "lookup ifelse" and it gives you a nice side-by-side comparison of each feature.	03:06
	Interactive thing basically	03:06
Juerd	ZoffixWin: That's nice but not what I'm thinking of	03:06
ZoffixWin	Ah :)	03:06
Juerd	I'm thinking of a landscape layout, 5 languages	03:07
llfourn	when I read book I read chapters with topic areas which I think is good	03:07
Juerd	In a full-page 3x2 matrix, where Perl 6 gets a double-width box, because it doesn't just get code, it also gets explanation in how it differs.	03:07
	llfourn: Yes! That too!	03:07
	I find myself constantly explaining Perl 6 to people in terms of their favourite language	03:09
	And rosettacode is entirely useless for this, because it's so bloated and hard to navigate	03:09
AlexDaniel	Juerd: consider “Wiki” instead of a “PDF” :)	03:10
Juerd	No, no, no...	03:10
AlexDaniel	why not?	03:10
Juerd	Because I want a fixed width layout	03:10
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Juerd	If it doesn't fit in the box, it's too complicated for a single example	03:11
	width + height	03:11
AlexDaniel	sure, feel free to do that with css ?	03:11
ZoffixWin	No, no, no, that's when you switch to smaller font, design 101 :D	03:11
Juerd	Flipping the pages should feel like browsing through a photo book	03:11
skids	maybe a "practical only" subset of rosettacode could be presented through an alternative portal/search engine.	03:11
AlexDaniel	sure, feel free to do that with js ?	03:11
Juerd	I already feel entirely free to do it whichever way I want :)	03:12
ZoffixWin	:D	03:12
AlexDaniel	:)	03:12
Herby_	:)	03:13
Juerd	I'm thinking of top 3 boxes: Python, C#, PHP	03:13
	Bottom 3 boxes: Perl 5, Perl 6, text	03:13
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ZoffixWin	I'd use Ruby instead of Perl 5	03:14
llfourn	Javascript instead of PHP :)	03:14
Juerd	I haven't set my mind on the languages yet	03:14
	But when suggesting them, please let me know why :)	03:15
ZoffixWin	And this is where a webapp solution shines better than a PDF: you can add any number of languages and mix-and-match them for your audience	03:15
Herby_	use assembly for speed	03:15
Juerd	I considered Javascript but it's a hard one because it doesn't really have that many language features.	03:15
	ZoffixWin: And that's exactly what I don't want, this one time.	03:15
ZoffixWin	Juerd, Ruby instead of Perl 5 because there are more Ruby programmers AND many of the Ruby programmers are ex-Perl-5 programmers	03:15
Juerd	Not interactive, not free form. Very old-fashioned.	03:16
ZoffixWin	.oO( old fart :P )	03:16
	But it's not webscale!!! :D	03:16
Juerd	Perl 5 is not negotiable by the way. I'll switch any of the other 3 :)	03:16
ZoffixWin	heh	03:16
Juerd	(Note that I haven't decided to do this project yet)	03:16
	(It's going to be a lot of work because I want to edit everything myself; I'll accept contributions but only if I like them :P)	03:17
ZoffixWin	Ruby instead of PHP then :) Mostly because some of the PHP coders I've seen online scare me with their incompetence so much, I don't want them anywhere near me :)	03:17
Juerd	Fair point	03:17
	http://juerd.nl/site.plp/perl_php	03:17
ZoffixWin	Juerd++	03:18
Juerd	I had to store that quote somewhere	03:18
	ZoffixWin: scrottie++, it's his text	03:18
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Juerd	Also, it's not going te be a showcase of TIMTOWTDI	03:19
	I don't care that you can write ... *, because I think it's utterly unreadable, so I will use ... Inf instead :)	03:19
	The hardest part will probably selecting the 3 non-perl languages :)	03:20
	And then figuring out what's idiomatic in those	03:21
	Python is the only obvious one, given its popularity.	03:21
	Java/C++/C# are all so similar, when it comes to basic syntax, that if you pick one, those who prefer the other language from that syntax family, will probably understand the code anyway.	03:22
	Ruby is interesting because it too has a unique syntax	03:22
	But PHP is interesting because it's such a great showcase of ugliness	03:23
Herby_	skids, I'm not still sure how to solve that "malformed utf-8" problem	03:23
	even with your tip of the webpage encoding	03:23
Juerd	Even Perl 5 often looks nice next to PHP, and Perl 6 would be even better.	03:23
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llfourn	I suggest JS over PHP because it's a more formidable language. It has promises built in with ECMA6, and arrays and hashes are very natural. If you want uglyness then go with PHP :P	03:24
	but I think the point is p6 will look great next to even JS	03:24
	everyone gets that PHP sucks	03:24
Juerd	I'm torn between excluding PHP because it sucks, and including PHP because it sucks.	03:25
llfourn	heh yep :P	03:25
skids	PHP is too easy a target. It's just not sporting.	03:25
Juerd	skids: It is, however, a lot of people's favourite language, and the go-to language for many programmers, even if they primarily write code in another language for their dayjob.	03:26
llfourn	isn't it the other way around?	03:26
Juerd	There are many Java programmers who would pick PHP for their personal projects.	03:26
Herby_	could someone take a peek at my crap code and tell me how to fix my "malformed UTF-8" error when I try to spurt to text file?	03:27
	http://pastebin.com/HJPqHx5S	03:27
Juerd	llfourn: Not from what I've seen at hackerspaces	03:27
Herby_	ignore the poorly named variables	03:27
Juerd	Herby_: Instead of asking us to ignore that, why don't you just come up with better names? :)	03:27
llfourn	I would expect that people are forced to do awful wordpress plugins for work and then go home and detox with some nice perl,python or ruby	03:27
Herby_	good point, Juerd.	03:27
llfourn	though I hate Java so much I guess even PHP could be some minor imporvement	03:28
	or at least bad in different ways	03:28
Juerd	Herby_: You have the arguments for spurt the wrong way around, it seems.	03:28
Herby_	wow, I'm a big dummy	03:29
	thought I read that doc right :(	03:29
	thanks, Juerd.	03:30
Juerd	Herby_: Most functions that take a short string and a long string, will have the short string as the first argument.	03:30
	This is not universal, but it seems to be the more common thing.	03:30
Herby_	I'll remember that tip	03:31
nightfrog	That's more logical	03:31
Juerd	Also, number and string: string is probably longer, comes last.	03:31
	string and list: list is probably longer, comes last	03:31
	(And not just because of its variable length)	03:31
Herby_	so at this point I have a variable containing JSON data. Are there any tutorials on how to extract info from JSON in Perl 6?	03:32
Juerd	I'd be surprised if I saw xyzzy(@quux, $foo), because I'd expect xyzzy($foo, @quux)	03:32
skids	The former probably because a concatination expression is likely for the long string and the latter due to not wanting a fight over ","	03:32
Juerd	Herby_: Decoding JSON can be done with a module	03:33
	There are several JSON modules	03:33
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Herby_	ok, making progress. trying to figure out how to loop through an array of dictionaries, and pull data out	03:52
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Herby_	getting "Type Array does not support associative indexing"	03:56
	hmm	03:56
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Herby_	solved it, tad ugly though :)(	04:03
Juerd	https://github.com/Juerd/philae/blob/master/braindump	04:04
	Off to bed	04:04
	Good night!	04:04
llfourn	o/	04:04
Herby_	night!	04:04
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cognominal	Juerd, It would be nice to build it also as grammar show cases. Grammar being the formal counterpart to the informal descriptions.	04:12
anthk_	m: say (my uint $n3 = (0xA2000 +< 8)).fmt("%0b");	04:19
		04:19
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«1010001000000000000000000000␤»	04:19
anthk_	m: say (my uint16 $n3 = (0xA2000 +< 8)).fmt("%0b");	04:19
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«0␤»	04:19
anthk_		04:19
	say (my uint16 $n3 = (0xA2F0 +< 8)).fmt("%0b");	04:21
		04:21
	m: say (my uint16 $n3 = (0xA2F0 +< 8)).fmt("%0b");	04:21
		04:21
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«1111000000000000␤»	04:21
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orbus	.tell jnthn when you have a moment, do you think you could describe how the Supply method on Channel is supposed to work? It's not documented and I wanted to fix that - but it doesn't seem to work like I would expect.	05:03
yoleaux	orbus: I'll pass your message to jnthn.	05:03
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orbus	m: my $c=Channel.new; my $s=$c.Supply; my $t1=$s.tap(-> $x {put "1 $x"}); my $c2=$s.Channel; for (1,2,3,4,5) {$c.send($_)}; await Promise.in(3)	05:05
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«1 1␤Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 15960 bytes␤»	05:05
orbus	:/	05:05
	m: my $c=Channel.new; my $s=$c.Supply; my $t1=$s.tap(-> $x {put "1 $x"}); my $t2=$s.tap(-> $x {put "2 $x"}); for (1,2,3,4,5) {$c.send($_)}; await Promise.in(3);	05:06
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«2 2␤1 1␤2 3␤1 4␤2 5␤Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 15944 bytes␤»	05:06
orbus	well that is actually what I would expect	05:06
	other than the memory allocation thing	05:06
	my $c=Channel.new; my $s=$c.Supply; my $t1=$s.tap(-> $x {put "1 $x"}); my $t2=$s.tap(-> $x {put "2 $x"}); for (1,2,3,4,5) {$c.send($_)}; await Promise.in(1)	05:07
	m: my $c=Channel.new; my $s=$c.Supply; my $t1=$s.tap(-> $x {put "1 $x"}); my $t2=$s.tap(-> $x {put "2 $x"}); for (1,2,3,4,5) {$c.send($_)}; await Promise.in(1)	05:07
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«1 1␤2 2␤2 3␤2 4␤2 5␤Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 15944 bytes␤»	05:07
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orbus	well	05:10
	actually not really	05:10
	I thought all the taps were supposed to get the same values	05:12
	but here it seems like they're each getting a random allotment of the values	05:12
anthk_	m: my uint8 $a = 240; say $a +< 2;	05:13
		05:13
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«960␤»	05:13
anthk_	what's the problem with the unsigned integers :\ ?	05:13
orbus	they don't work?	05:13
	what the specific problem is, I'm not entirely sure, but I don't think they're really implemented at this time	05:14
	I think somebody said it had something to do with all integer types falling back to Int, but not really sure	05:15
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llfourn	orbus: have you checked out roast? there might be clues re .Supply on channel	05:24
orbus	I haven't really looked through there no	05:25
	might take a look if I have time	05:25
	the way it acts is weird	05:25
	I'm wondering if it's not documented because the implementation is buggy	05:25
llfourn	This is the Channel method on supply but you are after the other way around: https://github.com/perl6/roast/blob/master/S17-supply/Channel.t	05:26
orbus	right	05:26
llfourn	orbus: it is very buggy	05:26
	in general	05:26
orbus	supply is?	05:26
	or channel?	05:26
	channels seem to work pretty well	05:26
	haven't messed with supplies a lot yet	05:26
llfourn	In my experience all async is fairly buggy but TBH I haven't delved into Channels and Supplied just Promises with start {}	05:27
	Supplies*	05:27
orbus	well my understanding is a supply should supply the same stream of values to all the taps on it	05:28
	if you create a supplier	05:28
	and create a supply off it	05:28
	and then put a couple taps	05:28
	that's what happens	05:28
	the taps get the same values	05:28
	but the supply that comes off Channel doesn't act like that	05:28
llfourn	well I'm glad that bit works at least	05:28
orbus	so I'm not sure if that's intentional or a bug	05:28
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orbus	I looked at the source	05:29
	but I'm not entirely sure I understand what it's doing :p	05:29
llfourn	good luck with that!	05:29
orbus	it looks like it's trying to emit every value added to the channel onto the supply	05:30
	which is more or less what I would expect	05:30
	but the taps are acting weird	05:30
	and I don't know why	05:30
skids	orbus: "on-demand" supplies behave as you expect.	05:30
	If you want to make an "on-demand" supply from one that is not, use .share.	05:31
orbus	hmmm	05:31
	looking at the docs I still don't entirely understand the distinction	05:32
skids	Or maybe I disn't understand that exactly	05:32
orbus	but it seems like for both types, all open taps should see the same stream of values	05:32
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skids	yes all active taps should.	05:32
orbus	with the supply I get off a channel	05:32
	what I'm seeing is	05:32
	well I had an example	05:32
	hang on	05:32
	m: my $c=Channel.new; my $s=$c.Supply; my $t1=$s.tap(-> $x {put "1 $x"}); my $t2=$s.tap(-> $x {put "2 $x"}); for (1,2,3,4,5) {$c.send($_)}; await Promise.in(1)	05:33
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«2 2␤1 1␤2 3␤1 4␤1 5␤Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 15944 bytes␤»	05:33
orbus	this crashes on camelia	05:33
	but on my box it doesn't crash and that's still the full output	05:33
	it's like one tap is seeing some of the values	05:33
	and the other tap is getting the others	05:33
	and the distribution seems to be random - you get different results on different runs	05:33
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orbus	m: my $sr=Supplier.new; my $s=$sr.Supply; my $t1=$s.tap(-> $x {put "1 $x"}); my $t2=$s.tap(-> $x {put "2 $x"}); for (1,2,3,4,5) {$sr.emit($_)}; await Promise.in(1)	05:35
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«1 1␤2 1␤1 2␤2 2␤1 3␤2 3␤1 4␤2 4␤1 5␤2 5␤»	05:35
orbus	a similar exercise with a supplier does what I would expect	05:35
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orbus	that might be by design but I'm not sure	05:40
	and I can't submit a documentation patch if I don't know how it's actually intended to behave	05:41
llfourn	orbus: I'd say the first patch that's needed is tests if there aren't any :)	05:43
skids	I think it's a bug.	05:43
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orbus	llfourn: can't write tests if we don't know how it's supposed to behave either	05:45
llfourn	precisely :)	05:45
orbus	I'm leaning towards bug as well, but not sure	05:45
	we'll see what jnthn says	05:45
	it came up in a conversation with him the other day	05:45
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orbus	which is why I started looking in the first place	05:45
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orbus	it could be by design, because creating a Supply off a Channel and creating a Supply off a Supplier otherwise work out to basically the same thing	05:48
	you send on the channel, you emit on the supplier	05:48
	practical result is the same	05:49
	maybe that's not what's intended	05:49
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orbus	but maybe that's a stretch too - that's why I'm uncertain	05:50
	anyway, getting late	05:50
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skids	I was actually working on updating the design docs WRT to Supplies but then the "serial supply" changes came in and went too far and made even the supplies that are not supposed to be serial into serial supplies.	05:52
	https://gist.github.com/skids/fabd0304f40e24db33d0 were some of the areas I could not figure out.	05:54
orbus	here there be dragons	05:55
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cuonglm	Hi guys, is anyone getting trouble with reading procfs file with perl6?	06:48
	perl6 -ne '.say' /proc/$$/statm	06:49
	went into an infinitive loop	06:49
	It doen't with Perl 5	06:50
	perl -pe '' /proc/$$/statm	06:50
	perl6 -pe '' /proc/$$/statm	06:50
llfourn	cuonglm: send an example to [email@hidden.address] if you wouldn't mind. Sounds like a bug.	06:51
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cuonglm	llfourn: Thanks, I have sent an email to [email@hidden.address]	06:58
llfourn	cuonglm: cheers	06:59
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cuonglm	Here's the ticket for anyone care about it https://rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=127370	07:03
	geekosaur wonders if /proc is still hypersensitive to how it's accessed	07:08
geekosaur	(used to be that you needed to read it buffered with a block size larger than the "file" or you'd get inconsistent data(	07:10
cuonglm	geekosaur: Yes, there're some ways to work around. But in user perspective, I want the behavior will be the same as in Perl 5.	07:11
	If that behavior is intentional, then it should be documented else where, so the user won't make mistake	07:12
	My laptop was freeze after I do "/proc/<pid>/statm".IO.lines.elems	07:13
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cuonglm	the compiler won't guard me from doing elems on lazy list like (1, 1, + ...^ *).elems	07:15
	the compiler even won't guard me from doing elems on lazy list like (1, 1, + ...^ *).elems	07:16
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moritz	\o	07:39
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FROGGS	o/	07:52
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	moritz wonders why cuonglm would use the ...^ form of the series operator to create an infinite list	07:57
jast	probably doesn't want all of infinity	08:00
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moritz	[Coke]++ # diplomatic response to RT #127355	08:07
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[Tux]	csv-ip5xs 17.867	08:23
	test 22.454	08:23
	test-t 12.234	08:23
	csv-parser 50.351	08:23
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dalek	doc: f52538b \| RabidGravy++ \| doc/Type/ (3 files):	08:45
	doc: document Channel.Supply, Promise.Supply	08:45
	doc:	08:45
	doc: Also add link to concurrency doc	08:45
	doc:	08:45
	doc: Closes #366	08:45
	doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f52538b5fa	08:45
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RabidGravy	Boom!	08:52
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travis-ci	Doc build errored. Jonathan Stowe 'document Channel.Supply, Promise.Supply	08:52
	https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/104843377 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/d78c5efb024b...f52538b5fae4	08:52
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	lizmat clickbaits https://p6weekly.wordpress.com/2016/01/25/2016-123-what-are-we-waiting-4/	08:53
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nine	Whenever I read that, I have the Duke's voice in my head... "What are you waiting for? Christmas?"	08:56
RabidGravy	lizmat++ # did you do anything in the last week but find all those links? ;-)	08:57
CIAvash	lizmat++	08:58
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lizmat	nine: I was more thinking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qPUJhy0Dz4&feature=youtu.be&t=68	09:01
stmuk	.tell zoffix maybe the xmas advent butterfly on perl6.org should finally fly away?	09:07
yoleaux	stmuk: I'll pass your message to zoffix.	09:07
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lizmat	.oO( isn't it eternally christmas now? )	09:12
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fireartist	what would be the best way to create/generate multiple methods with almost-identical functionality - basically fancy accessors which I would have used Class::Accessor to make in perl5?	09:20
	something like perl5: for $name (@names) { *{"$class"} = sub {} }; # where the sub body accesses different variables/methods based on $name	09:24
RabidGravy	well	09:24
lizmat	m: class A {}; A.^add_method("foo", method { say self } ); A.foo	09:24
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«(A)␤»	09:24
RabidGravy	or at it's simplest just use an "public attribute"	09:25
fireartist	I was hoping I could use attributes, but augment them with something like traits to gain extra functionality - but can't find anything like that in the docs	09:26
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fireartist	the add_method() would work, but was hoping for something more declarative - like attributes	09:27
lizmat	m: class A { has $.foo }; say A.new(foo => 42).foo	09:28
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«42␤»	09:28
lizmat	fireartist: is that what you mean ?	09:28
fireartist	it I were to use attributes, it wouldn't be just storing/returning a value	09:30
	here's an example of the kind of perl5 code I'm trying to replicate: https://metacpan.org/source/HALKEYE/Games-Lacuna-Client-0.003/lib/Games/Lacuna/Client/Module.pm#L69	09:30
lizmat	so you're basically programmatically building a sub and then install that as a method	09:32
fireartist	yes	09:32
lizmat	looks like ^add_method would be the thing then	09:33
fireartist	ok, I'll have a try with that - thanks	09:33
lizmat	afk for a few hours&	09:34
nine	fireartist: there are a couple of modules that implement new attribute traits: http://modules.perl6.org/#q=attrib	09:39
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fireartist	nine: thanks, I'll check them out!	09:41
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DrForr	Did I mention I hate encodings with a passion?...	09:44
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nine	DrForr: if only I didn't understand that so well...	09:51
DrForr	I think this data was run through UCS-2, UTF-9 and WTF-8 before arriving at Latin-Pig.	09:53
jnthn	The trouble with encodings is that there's more than one of them :)	09:53
yoleaux	05:03Z <orbus> jnthn: when you have a moment, do you think you could describe how the Supply method on Channel is supposed to work? It's not documented and I wanted to fix that - but it doesn't seem to work like I would expect.	09:53
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DrForr	And a woodchipper somewhere between UCS-2 and WTF-8, for good measure. It has the dubious distinction of being a new kind of mojibake I have not seen.	09:57
jnthn	.tell orbus .Supply on a Channel gives a Supply that will emit values that are sent on the Channel. The emit will be scheduled on the thread pool. If there are multiple active supplies on the Channel, or other readers, then they compete over the values.	09:57
yoleaux	jnthn: I'll pass your message to orbus.	09:57
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spacebat	/buffer 4	10:02
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nige1	morning *	10:42
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nige1	just wanted to pop a meme in the pool ;-)	10:43
	nginx - has just released v8 with http/2 support - https://www.nginx.com/blog/nginx-plus-r8-released/	10:44
	I wonder if a Perl 6 adapter could be added	10:45
jnthn	.oO( I made you a http/2, but I JavaScript'd it? )	10:45
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nige1	jnthn - any thoughts on the feasibility of that?	10:47
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timotimo	what does it mean to be an adapter?	10:49
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nige1	there is a Perl 5 module - that can do server side includes	10:49
timotimo	lol server side includes	10:49
nige1	I was thinking of something similar	10:49
	sec	10:49
timotimo	that sounds like antique technology, tbh	10:49
nige1	http://nginx.org/en/docs/http/ngx_http_perl_module.html	10:50
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nige1	it does more than SSI	10:50
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timotimo	many things on that documentation page scream "this is only for tiny hacks" to me	10:52
nige1	yes - agreed	10:52
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timotimo	perl6 has the big benefit of having async i/o and true multi-threading, though	10:53
	so the "if you do long-running operations in perl code, no other perl code will execute" problem wouldn't be a problem with a perl6 adapter	10:54
nige1	yes - so it would the stop-the-world during request handling problem	10:54
timotimo	on the other hand, rakudo itself is rather memory-hungry, sadly	10:55
	it'll improve a whole lot this year, though	10:55
nige1	so there would be a fat process there	10:55
timotimo	personally, i'd still recommend running a regular server process and make that available via something like mod_proxy	10:56
	or fcgi, psgi, whatever	10:56
nige1	yes	10:56
timotimo	not sure if those protocols know anything about the fancy new http/2 features	10:56
	like "i know you'll want this file, so here it is already"	10:56
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timotimo	i can imagine a mod_proxy'd thingie would have no problem tunneling multiple requests through the same outbound tcp connection while the underlying application serves one resource per one socket	10:58
nige1	hmmm - yes - it's going to be interesting to see how things work with http/2 - it seems to be picking up pace now	10:59
jast	some proxy mods can even handle websockets these days, so it seems fairly realistic	10:59
timotimo	just has to be implemented :)	10:59
	well, websockets are specifically made to be extremely robust to transports not knowing about it	11:00
	i think a mod_proxy like thingie is very likely to support websockets unless it specifically fucks it up	11:00
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fireartist	is there a way to get the filepath that was used to load a module? equivalent to perl5: $INC{'Module.pm'}	11:18
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gfldex	fireartist: a module may not be a file and therefor there may not be a path	11:26
fireartist	makes sense	11:26
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fireartist	is this a bug...?	11:30
	1# run code (lib/.precomp is created)	11:30
	2# add -I ../other-dir/lib (overriding an already-installed module)	11:30
	3# run code again (does not load from ../other-dir/lib until I manually delete lib/.precomp)	11:30
	nchambers → nnttcc	11:30
timotimo	"use lib" definitely disables precomp. i'm not sure if "-I" does, too	11:31
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fireartist	ok, I'll test the same with 'use lib'	11:32
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timotimo	"use lib" invalidates the precompilation because now things that are used transitively have to consider that folder, too ... or something like that?	11:34
	nnttcc → nchambers	11:34
fireartist	yes, adding "use lib '../other-dir/lib';" after the "use 'lib';" doesn't have the issue	11:34
timotimo	i regret to say i haven't kept up much since these improvements were made before christmas	11:34
fireartist	PERL6LIB has the same issue as -I -it's not invalidating .precomp	11:36
timotimo	seems like a bug, in that case	11:36
fireartist	would it be the rakudo tracker I should submit this to? (I'm running rakudo/moar 6.c)	11:37
timotimo	those bugs go into [email@hidden.address] (is it .org?) via mail	11:37
fireartist	cool - thanks for your help!	11:38
moritz	yes, it's .org	11:38
timotimo	no, thank you	11:39
nine	Plese note that a "use lib" after using any module will disable all precompilation. That may be the cause of this difference to PERL6LIB or -I	11:51
timotimo	damn you, jnthn. because of your excellent design of async stuff and our event loop in perl6 i never would have thought of the problems raised in the hammersmith and akka sections of http://blog.ometer.com/2011/07/24/callbacks-synchronous-and-asynchronous/	11:51
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llfourn	fireartist: you can find the repo the module was loaded from by calling .repo-id on the compunit	12:00
Skarsnik	HeHello	12:00
llfourn	(I think)	12:00
DrForr	o/	12:00
llfourn	https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/src/core/CompUnit.pm#L12	12:00
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llfourn	m: $*REPO.need(CompUnit::DependencySpecification.new(short-name => "Test")).repo-id.say	12:02
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«39D1BEBEB786F0DE0B82489F3F02F5C672CBA1F7␤»	12:02
llfourn	m: $*REPO.need(CompUnit::DependencySpecification.new(short-name => "Test")).repo.say # more useful	12:03
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«inst#/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6␤»	12:03
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fireartist	llfourn: thanks! that helps confirm the issue I was seeing	12:08
llfourn	\o/	12:09
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Zoffix	.	12:12
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yoleaux	09:07Z <stmuk> Zoffix: maybe the xmas advent butterfly on perl6.org should finally fly away?	12:12
Zoffix	Yeah, probably time	12:13
timotimo	how about we move the "jump in" button to the right where "recent blog posts" is now and make "recent blog posts" as tall as "jump in" and "advent calendar" used to be together?	12:14
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timotimo	does our layout mechanism support that without trouble?	12:14
RabidGravy	boom!	12:15
timotimo	heyo gravy-man	12:16
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sena_kun	We still haven't any way to take c-header and get defined constants from it?	12:17
	Pretty way, I meant.	12:17
timotimo	doesn't gptrixie do that, too?	12:18
sena_kun	timotimo, isn't it generates signatures, etc? I need to rtfm then.	12:19
timotimo	i think it's supposed to do more than just signatures	12:20
	i haven't actually used it yet	12:20
arnsholt	I think it generates both function signatures and constant values	12:20
sena_kun	timotimo, if so, I'll use it.	12:20
timotimo	it also does classes, i see	12:20
arnsholt	If you just want the constants, you can either dump everything and delete what you don't want, or patch it to only dump constants	12:20
timotimo	well, it already has a --all flag, supposedly it'd also have limiting flags	12:21
	[--enums] [--functions] [--structs] [--externs] [--list-types]	12:21
Skarsnik	It's #\| to add doc to parameter in MAIn ?	12:21
Zoffix	timotimo, good idea. Yeah, it should be doable. I'll look into it sometime this week unless anyone else does it before that.	12:22
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RabidGravy	yes	12:22
timotimo	thank you, Zoffix	12:22
	it's just because i saw so many posts in there are yours :P	12:22
	how would you feel about giving the pl6anet a bit of styling, too? :3	12:23
RabidGravy	really the most sensible way of getting #define FOO is by making a C wrapper and compiling it	12:26
Skarsnik	there is a define-enum to generate enum from #define	12:26
timotimo	oh, skarsnik is here! :)	12:27
Zoffix	RabidGravy, compiling it into a lib and using it with NativeCall or compiling it into what?	12:27
timotimo	well, you could also make it a little CLI binary	12:27
RabidGravy	er, yes	12:27
timotimo	either with a flag for every constant or just printing out all constants that are interesting	12:27
RabidGravy	it's do similar to what the h2xs does and generate a function that allows you to query the values	12:28
sena_kun	RabidGravy, you meant we can get #define's stuff from lib just using NativeCall? How exactly?	12:29
RabidGravy	no I don't mean that	12:29
Skarsnik	the issue with this solution you need the lib header	12:29
RabidGravy	you exactly can't and will never be able to do this	12:29
Skarsnik	to compile	12:29
RabidGravy	the issue with not doing it is that the values may differ from platform to platform	12:30
	shrug	12:30
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gfldex	Larry went to Hawaii. A smart move given the weather back home. He may also come to my hometown here in Eastern Germany, where we have 14°C and spotty sunshine.	12:32
sena_kun	RabidGravy, you're right. Anyway, I'm trying to write a module with fnctl constants/call and the only way to achieve it seems to be just parse header and build the module for a host OS. Am I right?	12:33
RabidGravy	obviously if the define is just a literal value then you stand a pretty good chance of it staying the same, but some library generate the public .h file based on what it finds at configure time	12:33
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RabidGravy	sena_kun, well fcntl is defined by POSIX so there is a reasonable chance that the values will stay the same, but not guaranteed, which is why it expressed in terms of the defines in the documentation	12:35
Skarsnik	hm	12:36
	There are probably some base value always the same	12:36
	with some extension based on the Os	12:36
nine	As it is you're going to need a C compiler on the target system in any case. So you may as well compile a small helper library with functions which you can call via NativeCall	12:37
RabidGravy	an operating system that has a POSIX interface but is not at all Unixy they may be entirely different	12:37
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Skarsnik	and question: I am handling filtering generated stuff based of the file it came from. Should I try to gather everything from the same file (struct/func/..) or keep displaying by stuff and just add from what file it came from?	12:38
RabidGravy	which is why e.g. Sys::Utmp has a helper library as the struct utmp that is returned by getutent and friends differs from OS to OS	12:39
	Skarsnik, I'd go with the latter myself	12:41
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RabidGravy	gfldex, it's warmish in London but there is a lot of wind right now	12:43
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sena_kun	Where does panda install binaries when ran from non-root?	12:51
Skarsnik	somewhere	12:52
gfldex	~/.perl6	12:52
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Skarsnik	.perl6/site/install/panda/stuff/morestuff	12:52
	Soomething like that	12:52
gfldex	well, it depedns on the prefix you use	12:52
sena_kun	Skarsnik, gfldex then something is wrong with my installation, since I have only .perl6/2015.12/(dist\|precomp). No way for panda.	12:54
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gfldex	sena_kun: try to build rakudo with --prefix=$HOME/local/ . That worked for me.	12:55
Skarsnik	nothing in dist?	12:55
sena_kun	gfldex, I'll try then.	12:55
	Skarsnik, exactly.	12:55
fireartist	if you used rakudobrew, look in ~/.rakudobrew	12:55
Skarsnik	how did you install rakudo?	12:56
ajr_	Isn't panda for installing modules, not binaries?	12:56
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sena_kun	ajr_, gptrixie installs binary file too.	12:57
	Skarsnik, using rakudobrew. I am searching there now.	12:57
Skarsnik	oh yeah, it's in .rakudobrew	12:58
sena_kun	It seems so - .rakudobrew/moar-2015.12/install/share/perl6/site/bin/gptrixie	12:59
	Thanks for your help, folks.	12:59
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ajr_	It would be nice if the documentation for installers (of all sorts) stated explicitly what they're installing and where.	12:59
moritz	ajr_: then please contribute to that documentation	13:00
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Skarsnik	Na panda should say it	13:00
ajr_	I'll try, when I know enough to make useful contributions.	13:00
moritz	panda says "Please add $directory to your $PATH variable" or so	13:01
timotimo	you can never "know enough"! :)	13:01
moritz	so you can kinda infer that it installs executables to that path	13:01
RabidGravy	ajr_, panda will install whatever you ask it to, lots of modules install dynamic libraries they have built themself for example	13:01
lizmat	.tell [Coke] I have a small patch that makes hash inits (like %h = a => 42) about 10% faster, should I commit now and if so, where ?	13:02
yoleaux	lizmat: I'll pass your message to [Coke].	13:02
lizmat	afk&	13:03
ajr_	Thanks, RG, that's a good clarification.	13:03
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Skarsnik	does putting Array @hello in main make it accept stuff like --hello=1,2,3 ?	13:13
	Zoffix doubts it	13:14
moritz	Skarsnik: 'Array @hello' would be an array of arrays	13:14
	Skarsnik: the @ already implies array	13:14
Skarsnik	yeah without the Array	13:15
moritz	it could be that using the @ sigil means you're allowed to pass that option mutliple times	13:15
Zoffix	Says: "Usage: foo.p6 <hello>"	13:15
moritz	--hello=a --hello=b	13:15
Zoffix	doesn't work	13:15
moritz	pity	13:16
Zoffix	(still says "usage...")	13:16
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Skarsnik	hm is that a bug? I do MAIN(Str $opt1 #\| foo (newline) , $opt2 #\| bar and Usage show me foo for opt2	13:24
lizmat	Zoffix: multi sub MAIN(:@hello) { dd @hello } # seems to do the trick for me	13:25
Zoffix	lizmat, ah, I didn't use the :	13:25
lizmat	$ perl6 4 --hello=1 --hello=2	13:25
	[IntStr.new(1, "1"), IntStr.new(2, "2")]	13:25
moritz	ah right, needs to be named	13:25
timotimo	could be you actually want #= instead of #\| ?	13:25
moritz	lizmat++	13:25
El_Che	==> Fetching Text::CSV	13:25
	Please remove leading 'v' from perl version in Text::CSV's meta info.	13:25
	Text::CSV requires Perl version 6.0.0. Cannot continue.	13:25
Skarsnik	Oh it's =	13:25
El_Che	need to update ly fairly recent rakudo or panda setup?	13:26
Zoffix	moritz, RE RT#127364, I kinda expected race to split up those 100000 calls to .base into two threads and do 500,000 calls in each. That'd make it be heavy lifting	13:26
	smash_ → smash	13:26
lizmat	El_Che: I see "perl" : "6.c",	13:27
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lizmat	no v in sight	13:27
Zoffix	Otherwise, there's not much use to it. I'd only use it if I want my program to be faster, but if there's a chance for it to be 5 times SLOWER than raceless version just because some box my program is run on can crunch each iteration very fast	13:27
	...then I'd be wary of using .race	13:27
El_Che	lizmat: my command is a simple "panda install Text::CSV"	13:27
lizmat	hmmmm....	13:28
El_Che	let nuke rakudo and try again	13:28
lizmat	no idea, then	13:28
Zoffix	El_Che, NOOo	13:28
	wait	13:28
El_Che	ok	13:28
Zoffix	El_Che, recently there was a change that requires the perl key in META to NOT have the "v" in front of version. That module does have it	13:28
	So the META needs to be edited. Clone it, remove "v" and do panda install . and submit a PR to the author	13:28
El_Che	Zoffix: will do	13:29
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Zoffix	oh	13:29
	El_Che, seems like it's updated already. Maybe try running panda update	13:30
Skarsnik	hm	13:30
	Usage: bin/gptrixie [--all] [--define-enum=<Str>] [--ooc=<Str>] [--enums] [--functions] [--structs] [--externs] [--list-types] [--list-files] [--files=<Str>] [--hello=<Positional>] <header-file> [<gccoptions> ...] -- The header file to use	13:30
	Should it show the <gccoptions> at the end ? (it's a *@)	13:30
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El_Che	Zoffix: panda update did the trick. I didn't know about that. Maybe that should could automatically?	13:32
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Skarsnik	hm panda can be broken sometime, you probably don't want it to upgrade itself x)	13:32
Zoffix	Yeah, probably.	13:32
	Skarsnik, the update fetches the fresh ecosystem meta file	13:33
Skarsnik	Oh that	13:33
timotimo	"panda update" could be more explanatory about what exactly it does	13:33
El_Che	timotimo: I wouldn know why the use case is to do that manually	13:33
	why -> what	13:33
lizmat	afk&	13:34
Zoffix	It's more of "fetching it before every module install is a bad idea"	13:34
timotimo	hum?	13:34
Skarsnik	why USAGE choose a random order to display option lol	13:34
El_Che	not for every install, for every run	13:34
Skarsnik	instead of the order in main? x)	13:34
timotimo	Skarsnik: probably something's using a Hash in the middle	13:34
Zoffix	Still, sounds excessive. Our servers will be hammered pretty often (assuming we get a ton of users)	13:35
Skarsnik	That kind of bad probably	13:35
	I mean I can always write my own USAGE	13:35
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Skarsnik	but order it quite meaning full	13:36
Zoffix	I'd do it like "fetch fresh one if the local copy is older than $n days"... and maybe do it like 2-3 days (at the current ecosystem rates)	13:36
El_Che	JSON::Tiny seem to be popular	13:36
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Skarsnik	timotimo, should I repport that as LAA?	13:36
El_Che	(looking at the serialization options in the eco system)	13:36
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Skarsnik	JSON::Marshal/Unmarshal more suited for serializatio with json x)	13:42
	how I do multi line WHY ? I used #= on each line but I kind of want a \n added to it? x)	13:45
Zoffix	m: sleep 1 for ^8 .hyper; say now - INIT now	13:48
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«8.007386665␤»	13:48
Zoffix	m: sleep 1 for ^8 .hyper: :1batch; say now - INIT now	13:48
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«2.0091985␤»	13:48
Zoffix	k	13:48
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Zoffix	m: sleep 1 for ^8 .hyper: :4degree; say now - INIT now	13:55
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«8.00768867␤»	13:55
Zoffix	m: run 'lscpu'	13:56
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«run is disallowed in restricted setting␤ in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting line 1␤ in sub run at src/RESTRICTED.setting line 14␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/RqpYWDj0go line 1␤␤»	13:56
Zoffix	m: use NativeCall; sub system (Str) is native {}; system 'lscpu'	13:56
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«Architecture: x86_64␤CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit, 64-bit␤Byte Order: Little Endian␤CPU(s): 4␤On-line CPU(s) list: 0-3␤Thread(s) per core: 1␤Core(s) per socket: 1␤Socket(s): 4␤NUMA nod…»	13:56
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flussence	m: #\|{ foo␤ bar␤ baz}␤my $foo;␤␤ say $foo.WHY	14:00
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»	14:00
flussence	m: #\| foo␤my $foo;␤␤ say $foo.WHY	14:00
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»	14:00
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flussence	.oO( how do I do single line .WHY...? )	14:01
Zoffix	isn't only for subs?	14:01
flussence	m: #\| foo␤sub foo {}␤#= bar␤ say &foo.WHY	14:01
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«foo␤bar␤»	14:01
flussence	hum, not how I remember it supposed to work	14:02
	m: #\|{ foo␤foo2␤foo3 }␤sub foo {}␤#= bar␤ say &foo.WHY	14:02
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«foo foo2 foo3␤bar␤»	14:02
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Skarsnik	lol Zoffiw with the system work around	14:06
moritz	well, I guess I'll have to remove NativeCall from the camelia rakudo build	14:06
Skarsnik	#\| is for the next thing	14:06
	you can probably removing calling the sub?	14:07
	*remove	14:07
Zoffix	moritz, yeah, that's probably a safe way to go	14:08
	Removing calling a sub sounds iffy... You'd have to regex it out or something and that (a) might leave some bypass (b) might mess with different code that's trying to run	14:09
Skarsnik	na keep NC, it useful to show how guess_library_name work for people asking about how NC handle libraryname	14:09
	Zoffix, na you probably can just remove assigning the NC trait to the sub	14:09
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Skarsnik	and it will act like a 'normal' sub	14:10
Zoffix	m: use NativeCall; sub not-a-system (Str) is native is symbol('system') {}; not-a-system 'lscpu'	14:10
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«Architecture: x86_64␤CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit, 64-bit␤Byte Order: Little Endian␤CPU(s): 4␤On-line CPU(s) list: 0-3␤Thread(s) per core: 1␤Core(s) per socket: 1␤Socket(s): 4␤NUMA nod…»	14:10
Skarsnik	I was just saying preventing native sub to be called at all	14:11
	not just filter on system	14:11
Zoffix	Ahh	14:11
	m: use NativeCall; sub fork is native {}; fork; say 42	14:12
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«42␤42␤»	14:12
Zoffix	This can be useful to show too	14:12
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Zoffix	shrug I'm fine with NC being removed completely :)	14:12
gtodd	I always thought camelia ran inside a VM inside a jail in a zone in a cave under a glacier with someone nearby ready to pull the power-cord ...	14:12
Zoffix	nah	14:12
	last week I killed her accidentally.... Then restarted using the nativecall hack using a copy of her running on another server XD	14:13
gtodd	sheesh	14:13
	when a butterfly's wing flaps in ... errm	14:13
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Zoffix	:D	14:14
gtodd	what about a "special" version of NC that says "I'm sorry Dave ..."	14:14
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Zoffix	:F	14:16
	*:D	14:16
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gtodd	wow ... use NativeCall; sub fork is native {}; fork; say 42 ???	14:17
	that is ... pretty cool	14:17
	for how simple it is :)	14:17
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gtodd	maybe an entire chapter in the docs should be dedicated to NC security so people don't become needlessly nervous :)	14:19
moritz	gtodd: you're welcome to provide that	14:19
gtodd	:-D	14:19
	1. Tell your manager that you have turned off NC in your build :)	14:20
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gtodd	2. For a truly secure feeling maybe even really do step 1. ...	14:22
DrForr	Run it on CP/M :)	14:22
Skarsnik	Actually that not a bad idea, to have something to cut off NC (or the nqp/vm that make it work)	14:23
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RabidGravy	You could make a build with it turned off in the restricted setting I guess	14:24
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gtodd	... of course a lot of internet facing machines have 3 compilers 14 scripting languages 12 shells and a partridge in a pear tree ... :-)	14:24
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RabidGravy	exactly, if you're concerned about a theoretical local loophole than you're probably stuffed anyway	14:25
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gtodd	I just thought perl6 w/ NC was no worse than $OTHERTHING	14:28
hoelzro	o/ #perl6	14:28
	when the earliest/more syntax changed to react/whenever, did anything similar to wait appear? or should one just use another channel to implement a timeout?	14:29
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Skarsnik	well you don't need a compiler to make NC work	14:33
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Skarsnik	You install rakudo/moar and that it	14:33
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jnthn	hoelzro: What're you looking to do?	14:36
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jnthn	hoelzro: react already implies non-busy waiting	14:36
hoelzro	jnthn: looking to see if https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=125343 is still relevant	14:36
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RabidGravy	And if you want to end the react in some period of time then "react { whenever Promise.in($t) { done } ...... }" is probably the puppy	15:06
	BTW hoelzro your https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=123282 is a duplicate of one I did	15:09
hoelzro	ah, it is? thanks for pointing that out; we should probably merge them	15:09
RabidGravy	'ang on I'll find the relevant ticket	15:09
	https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=126401	15:10
	I don't think I'm able to merge the tickets so if someone else could	15:11
	yeah I don't have permission to merge	15:14
hoelzro	RabidGravy: I can merge them, but I don't see the similarity	15:14
	oh, dur	15:14
	nvm =P	15:14
	I thought you were talking about my earliest ticket	15:14
nine	merged	15:14
RabidGravy	no the IPv6 thing	15:15
	:)	15:15
	cheers	15:15
hoelzro	damn, nine beat me to it!	15:15
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hoelzro	nine++	15:15
Skarsnik	I need to use index to see if an element is in an array?	15:25
timotimo	i think so. and if you use index, don't forget that "0" is a valid index, too. so you need "with" instead of "if"	15:26
	or "without" instead of "unless"	15:26
	oh, we also have "first"	15:26
	that may work better for you, depending on your use case	15:26
hoelzro	also any(@elems) == $target	15:26
Skarsnik	why Str has a contains but not Array?	15:26
timotimo	because in Str you can do boyer-moore substring search	15:26
	:P	15:27
nine	obviously...	15:27
timotimo	also, contains on a Str is very different from contains on Array	15:27
Zoffix	There are set operators	15:27
timotimo	aye, (elem) would also be good	15:27
Zoffix	m: my @valid = <foo bar ber>; say 'foo' ⊆ @valid; say 'blarg' ⊆ @valid	15:27
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«True␤False␤»	15:27
timotimo	like, 1234 in [1, 2, 3, 4] giving True would probably surprise you on an array, but not on a string.	15:27
Skarsnik	what is the texas form? x)	15:27
timotimo	(>=) for example	15:28
Zoffix	m: my @valid = <foo bar ber>; say 'foo' (<=) @valid; say 'blarg' (<=) @valid	15:28
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«True␤False␤»	15:28
timotimo	but i'd really use (elem) instead of (<=)	15:28
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timotimo	that is a simpler check to do. dunno if we optimize that case already or not	15:28
Zoffix	Yeah	15:29
	I had my mind set on...	15:29
timotimo	your mind set on Set? :)	15:29
	risou → risou_awy	15:29
Zoffix	m: my @given = <foo bar>; my @valid = <foo bar ber>; say @given ⊆ @valid; @given.append: "blarg"; say @gtiven ⊆ @valid	15:29
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«=== SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/3FerWi__Kj␤Variable '@gtiven' is not declared. Did you mean '@given'?␤at /tmp/3FerWi__Kj:1␤------> n ⊆ @valid; @given.append: "blarg"; say ⏏ @gtiven ⊆ @valid ␤»	15:29
ilmari	m: my @valid = <foo bar ber>; say 'foo' ∈ @valid;	15:29
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«True␤»	15:29
Zoffix	dammit	15:29
	risou_awy → risou	15:29
Zoffix	m: my @given = <foo bar>; my @valid = <foo bar ber>; say @given ⊆ @valid; @given.append: "blarg"; say @given ⊆ @valid	15:29
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«True␤False␤»	15:29
timotimo	note that that coerces the whole iterable to a set first	15:30
Zoffix	Premature optimization :)	15:30
timotimo	whereas .first or .index will short-circuit	15:30
	more importantly, perhaps, coercing a lazy sequence to a set will never terminate even if the element can already be found	15:31
Zoffix	ahh	15:31
timotimo	.index and .first still work under the assumption that the lazy sequence will at some point really generate that element	15:31
	if the element isn't in there, both .index/.first and (elem) will infiniloop, though	15:31
Zoffix	m: my $x = 1..Inf; say so $x.index: "42";	15:31
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«False␤»	15:31
Skarsnik	returns Nil when no values match for first	15:31
Zoffix	m: my $x = 1..Inf; say so $x.first: "42";	15:31
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«True␤»	15:31
Skarsnik	hm, should it be just False?	15:31
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Skarsnik	I am not if it's really a failure	15:32
Zoffix	HAH	15:32
timotimo	it doesn't smartmatch?	15:32
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timotimo	m: say 45 ~~ "45"	15:32
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«True␤»	15:32
Zoffix	nemo, somehow, magically, my compose started to work.. WITH the extended file ☺	15:32
[Coke]	achoo	15:32
yoleaux	13:02Z <lizmat> [Coke]: I have a small patch that makes hash inits (like %h = a => 42) about 10% faster, should I commit now and if so, where ?	15:32
timotimo	hooray!	15:32
Zoffix	oh maybe not..	15:33
	Just the regular compose.. oh well, better than it being totally broken :P	15:33
	m: my $x = 1..Inf; say so 42 ∈ $x	15:34
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«(timeout)»	15:34
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	gfldex .oO( Never start at the wrong end of an infinite list. )	15:38
[Coke]	lizmat: nom. if we can cherry pick it to the release prep branch, great.	15:38
	.tell lizmat nom (I guess?) if we can cherry pick it to the release prep branch, great.	15:38
yoleaux	[Coke]: I'll pass your message to lizmat.	15:38
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MadcapJake	Any idea why JSON::Fast would be really slow?	15:38
[Coke]	MadcapJake: compared to?	15:39
MadcapJake	well anything, it seems to just hang indefinitely when given an array of objects	15:39
	m: class A {has $!value = 1, has $!string = 'A'}; my A @arr; for 0..15 { @arr.append: A.new }; use JSON::Fast; say to-json(@arr, :pretty);	15:40
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find JSON::Fast in:␤ /home/camelia/.perl6/2015.12-220-gcf7706f␤ /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/site␤ /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/vendor␤ /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6␤ C…»	15:40
Skarsnik	star-r: say 'hello'	15:41
	r-star: say 'hello'	15:41
	meh whatever xD	15:41
Zoffix	star: say 'hello'	15:42
camelia	star-m 2015.09: OUTPUT«hello␤»	15:42
Zoffix	star: class A {has $!value = 1, has $!string = 'A'}; my A @arr; for 0..15 { @arr.append: A.new }; use JSON::Fast; say to-json(@arr, :pretty);	15:42
camelia	star-m 2015.09: OUTPUT«Method 'append' not found for invocant of class 'Array[A]'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/1giYzzUeuY:1␤␤»	15:42
Zoffix	... it's that old? >_<	15:43
MadcapJake	Can JSON::Fast not handle class instances?	15:43
	It seems JSON::Tiny just says "Cannot serialize type A"	15:43
Zoffix	Dunno.. What's it supposed to do with them?	15:43
MadcapJake	turn them into hash objects	15:43
moritz	how?	15:44
Zoffix	Interesting. That's not what I'd expect it to do.	15:44
ilmari	objects are not hashes, regardless of what javascript calls them	15:44
MadcapJake	but this is json we're talking about...	15:44
[Coke]	I wouldn't expect to-json to work on classes, but I haven't read json-fast's docs yet.	15:44
moritz	also note that JSON::Tiny aims to be Tiny, like, minimal	15:44
	so it will never implement fancy conversion schemes	15:44
[Coke]	It should probably die or give up instead of hanging, though.	15:45
Zoffix	MadcapJake, but you don't get a Perl 6 object out of a JSON hash	15:45
moritz	there's room for larger/fatter/more feature-complete JSON implementations out there	15:45
Zoffix	I'd expect it to call TO-JSON method, if one present, and call .Str if not	15:45
	or .gist I guess	15:45
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Zoffix	m: say IO::Socket::INET.new.Str	15:46
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«IO::Socket::INET is disallowed in restricted setting␤ in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting line 1␤ in method new at src/RESTRICTED.setting line 32␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/P7nTXH4fwu line 1␤␤»	15:46
MadcapJake	alright no biggy, i'll just create a class method that turns my objects into hashes	15:46
Zoffix	---	15:46
perlpilot	TO-JSON sounds a little too magical to me.	15:46
Skarsnik	use json::marshal/unmarshal MadcapJake	15:46
Zoffix	perlpilot, that's the convention in Perl 5 land	15:46
moritz	note that you can export your own to-json multis for your types	15:46
Zoffix	Seems useful (if that convention is widely used that is)	15:46
perlpilot	IF the class did the Associative role, perhaps to-json would work	15:46
MadcapJake	Skarsnik: thanks!	15:46
Zoffix	huggable, Associative	15:47
huggable	Zoffix, role Associative [Object that supports looking up values by key]: http://doc.perl6.org/type/Associative	15:47
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Zoffix	m: class Bar is Associative { has $!foo = 42; }; Bar.new<foo>.say	15:47
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«Associative indexing implementation missing from type Bar␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/Sj7jziP7LP line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/Sj7jziP7LP line 1␤␤»	15:47
Zoffix	huh	15:47
moritz	perlpilot: what about things like Match and Capture that do both Positional and Associative?	15:48
	Zoffix: http://doc.perl6.org/language/subscripts	15:48
perlpilot	moritz: ah, good point.	15:48
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Zoffix	Ahh	15:48
moritz	Zoffix: you told it to be associative, but not how it's supposed to associate	15:49
Zoffix	I wanted it magically figure that out :P	15:49
perlpilot	there is no magic here.	15:49
	moritz wants a new laptop	15:49
Zoffix	m: class Bar is Associative { has $!foo = 42; method AT-KEY { self."$key" } }; Bar.new<foo>.say	15:49
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«=== SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/9WvkPmbMks␤Variable '$key' is not declared␤at /tmp/9WvkPmbMks:1␤------> { has $!foo = 42; method AT-KEY { self." ⏏ $key" } }; Bar.new<foo>.say ␤»	15:49
Zoffix	m: class Bar is Associative { has $!foo = 42; method AT-KEY { self."$^key" } }; Bar.new<foo>.say	15:49
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«=== SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/Ro3kkDUwAL␤Quoted method name requires parenthesized arguments. If you meant to concatenate two strings, use '~'.␤at /tmp/Ro3kkDUwAL:1␤------> $!foo = 42; method AT-KEY { self."$^key" ⏏ } }; Bar.ne…»	15:49
Zoffix	oh sod off	15:49
	m: class Bar is Associative { has $!foo = 42; method AT-KEY { self."$^key"() } }; Bar.new<foo>.say	15:50
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«=== SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/_Zb66kJwRE␤Placeholder variables cannot be used in a method␤at /tmp/_Zb66kJwRE:1␤------> is Associative { has $!foo = 42; method ⏏ AT-KEY { self."$^key"() } }; Bar.new<fo ␤»	15:50
Zoffix	(╯°□°）╯︵┻━┻	15:50
ilmari	Zoffix: that doesn't help with iterating over the keys, though	15:50
	m: class Bar is Associative { has $!foo = 42; method AT-KEY($key) { self!"$key"() } }; Bar.new<foo>.say	15:50
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«No such private method '!foo' for invocant of type 'Bar'␤ in method AT-KEY at /tmp/ebzsoO29Ld line 1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/ebzsoO29Ld line 1␤␤»	15:50
Zoffix	These error messages are so good, they're annoying. It's like, if you're that smart, fix it for me :D	15:50
perlpilot	Zoffix: that's where there's room for magic in user-land :)	15:51
ilmari	m: class Bar is Associative { has $.foo = 42; method AT-KEY($key) { self."$key"() } }; Bar.new<foo>.say	15:51
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«42␤»	15:51
perlpilot	use fix-it-for-me;	15:51
Zoffix	:)	15:51
	RabidGravy writes a really, really dumb HTTP echo server for testing purposes	15:52
Zoffix	perlpilot, I think I'll churn out Class::MagicAssociative right here and now :)	15:52
	To learn the hash methods	15:52
Skarsnik	RabidGravy, there is not already one? x)	15:52
RabidGravy	Not dumb enough	15:53
Zoffix	or Role:: I guess	15:53
	m: class Bar does Associative { has $.foo = 42; method AT-KEY($key) { self."$key"() } }; Bar.new<foo>.say	15:53
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«42␤»	15:53
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nemo	ZoffixWin: wooohoo!	16:02
	ZoffixWin: maybe last reboot killed off some IME or something that was running ☺	16:03
ZoffixWin	maybe	16:03
RabidGravy	Skarsnik, I mean, really, really, really dumb https://gist.github.com/jonathanstowe/e0d76e413751a9302729	16:03
sena_kun	I've built latest nqp/moarwm/rakudo using rakudobrew, then tried to install panda and got "Method 'bindir' not found for invocant of class 'CompUnit::Repository::Installation'". It seems panda is broken for me by last commit.	16:04
	ZoffixWin tries out fresh install	16:05
sena_kun	Of course, .perl6 and .rakudobrew was rm-rf-ed before. Twice.	16:06
perlpilot	sena_kun: see, there's your problem ... you didn't rm-rf a third time! ;)	16:07
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	perlpilot rakudobrews to see what happens locally	16:07
dalek	perl6.org: ad776e2 \| (Zoffix Znet)++ \| source/downloads/index.html:	16:07
	perl6.org: Typo	16:07
	perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/ad776e2ad7	16:07
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sena_kun	perlpilot, I just like to remove things.	16:08
nemo	ZoffixWin: BTW, I don't know if you type in french like I do, but I had to disable some of that ridiculously large .XCompose for breaking accents. for some reason compose + ` + [a-z] is remapped to ᴀ..ᴇ... instead of à..è.. etc. Doing `a instead of a` seems to avoid it, but I don't like remembering order, so I just disabled the characters I actually needed for french	16:08
ZoffixWin	No, despite living in Cakunistan, I don't type in French :)	16:09
	*Canukistan too -_- way to ruin a pun	16:10
perlpilot	ZoffixWin: oddly, I read it as if you'd typed it correctly	16:10
ZoffixWin	Not too odd :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typoglycemia	16:11
perlpilot	heh	16:11
	sena_kun: panda seems to have installed just fine here. How did you try to install panda?	16:12
nemo	ZoffixWin: ah. cool.. where in canada?	16:13
ZoffixWin	Brampton (40m away from Toronto, Ontario)	16:13
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nemo	,0▌🍁 ▌	16:15
	ZoffixWin: ah. I grew up... well, all over the place, but originally from oshawa area	16:15
	40m O_o	16:15
ZoffixWin	Ah. Been there	16:15
nemo	went into a bit of a decline when GM started imploding	16:15
sena_kun	perlpilot, just as written at /downloads page. When I installed it about a week ago it was fine. git clone rakudobrew, then build moar, then tried to rakudobrew build panda. http://pastebin.com/aNSWNkwY - here is the log.	16:16
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ZoffixWin	sena_kun, works fine for me too. rakudobrew build moar; rakudobrew build panda;	16:16
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ZoffixWin	sena_kun, I notice in your log, it's not fetching from github	16:17
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perlpilot	sena_kun: /home/sena/.rakudobrew/moar-2015.12 doesn't look like the "latest" to me.	16:17
ZoffixWin	sena_kun, this is my output, note the "cloning" at the start: https://gist.github.com/zoffixznet/8165faf650c53124e5e7	16:17
sena_kun	ZoffixWin, it's because I rerun installation to show the log and master was already downloaded.	16:18
ZoffixWin	oh, heh, right :)	16:18
	sena_kun, k, lemme try build the Christmas perl and try with panda with that	16:18
	That's not what I assumed you meant by "latest nqp/moarwm/rakudo" :)	16:19
perlpilot	me either	16:19
sena_kun	ZoffixWin, sorry, I was wrong here.	16:19
	Started from scratch.	16:20
ZoffixWin	sena_kun, if you run "rakudobrew build moar" instead of "rakudobrew build moar 2015.12", then you'll get latest and greatest.	16:21
	Though, if panda fails with Christmas Perl 6, then it's certainly a problem.	16:21
sena_kun	ZoffixWin, "rakudobrew build moar latest" will do the trick also?	16:22
ZoffixWin	shrug never heard of that one	16:22
sena_kun	ZoffixWin, the whole new world is waiting. (:	16:23
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sena_kun	Read rakudobrew readme - okay, I was at fault. But panda certainly fails with Xmas.	16:25
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ZoffixWin	Yup. Reproduced.	16:27
	ZoffixWin files an Issue	16:27
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ZoffixWin	https://github.com/tadzik/panda/issues/290	16:30
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nine	.tell FROGGS https://github.com/tadzik/panda/issues/290	16:33
yoleaux	nine: I'll pass your message to FROGGS.	16:33
nine	.tell jnthn https://github.com/tadzik/panda/issues/290	16:33
yoleaux	nine: I'll pass your message to jnthn.	16:33
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AlexDaniel	m: https://gist.github.com/AlexDaniel/69ff636ffe4053792120	16:56
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: ( no output )	16:56
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sjn	\o	17:35
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FROGGS	o/	18:31
yoleaux	16:33Z <nine> FROGGS: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/issues/290	18:31
vendethiel	\o	18:31
FROGGS	hmmm	18:31
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ely-se	hello world	18:41
FROGGS	hi ely-se	18:42
ely-se	writing my first type checker in Perl 6	18:42
	EXCITING	18:42
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ely-se	the last time I've been this excited must have been when I was writing my first type checker in C#	18:43
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vendethiel	..around a month or two ago :P.	18:43
[Tux]	:)	18:44
ely-se	:)	18:44
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DrForr	.seen nine	18:51
yoleaux	I saw nine 16:33Z in #perl6: <nine> .tell jnthn https://github.com/tadzik/panda/issues/290	18:51
nine	FROGGS: thanks for the quick fix!	18:52
DrForr	nine: Howdy. Got a memory issue I'd like to bounce off you.	18:52
FROGGS	nine: will start to build the star RC in e few minutes btw	18:52
	nine: just need to wait for the availability of my left arm, where my youngest falls asleep right now	18:54
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timotimo	d'aaw	18:54
nine	FROGGS: :)	18:55
	DrForr: what can I do for you?	18:55
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DrForr	Well, I'm fiddling with Inline::Guile stuff, and the way getting a list back from Scheme will have to work involves me malloc'ing a block inside C and having P6 deal with the resultant chunk.	18:56
	Which means that something needs to free() that list's memory.	18:56
timotimo	i wonder who will build Inline::V8 or Inline::Chakra or whatever the firefox one is called	18:57
	TraceMonkey?	18:57
FROGGS	copy the mem and then free it?	18:57
nine	so far so good?	18:57
DrForr	Right. I can do that easily enough, just buiild a struct, malloc the array and return it, no problem.	18:58
timotimo	sub free(Pointer $p) is native(Str) { * }	18:58
DrForr	That gets passed back as a CArray to Perl, and then when it's done unmarshalling the datastructure, something has to free it.	18:58
FROGGS	DrForr: free it from Perl 6	18:59
DrForr	Yeah, that's the simple but a bit unsatisfying way because that means I have to trust the Perl 6 code to free it.	18:59
	Plus it's a nested data structure, with malloc'ed string ranges inside.	18:59
timotimo	doesn't that mean every user of Guile is supposed to do the free-dance?	18:59
nine	Why couldn't you trust the Perl 6 code to do that?	18:59
DrForr	timotimo: No, just the Inline::Guile module.	19:00
mst	because he wrote it and he knows he's terrible at it? ;)	19:00
nine	I assume the unmarshalling code is part of Inline::Guile anyway?	19:00
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DrForr	Well, it's more complex than just free'ing the arena, so that part is probably best done in C.	19:01
	I just don't want to accidentally the free() call and release it into the wild.	19:01
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nine	That's not much different from what I've got to do in Inline::Perl5. I also need to keep the reference counts correct which is quite a struggle.	19:03
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DrForr	I'm thinking the best solution for that is to pass both the string we want eval'ed and a callback that does the unarshalling. That way the free() call can be in the same function that does the malloc, so I won't forget.	19:04
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DrForr	I'll play with that and let you know how I get along at FOSDEM, I suppose.	19:05
gfldex	http://design.perl6.org/S26.html#Placement_links does not make sense because there is no way to tell the renderer what the content type is	19:05
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mst	I don't recall having to do nearly this dance in Guile.pm	19:05
	but that may just be because somebody'd already written that part and I failed to understand it	19:05
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ggoebel14	how would one check if two lists are equivalent? (1,2,3,4) == (1,2,3,4)	19:06
DrForr	m: (1,2) ~~ (2,1)	19:06
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: ( no output )	19:06
DrForr	m: (1,2) ~~ (1,2)	19:06
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: ( no output )	19:06
DrForr	Er?...	19:06
ZoffixWin	SAY	19:06
	m: say (1,2) ~~ (1,2)	19:06
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«True␤»	19:06
ZoffixWin	m: say (1,2) ~~ (2,1)	19:07
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«False␤»	19:07
DrForr	Ah.	19:07
gfldex	m: say (1,2,3,4) eqv (1,2,3,4); say (1,2,3,4) eqv (1,2,3,5);	19:07
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«True␤False␤»	19:07
DrForr	. o ( Say, say, say what you want... )	19:07
ggoebel14	thank you... what is ~~ called?	19:07
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gfldex	smart match	19:07
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El_Che	\|Tux\| corrupted me after using Text::CSV. Weird bug was "sprintf ('%02d', $<day>)" <- with the extra space :)	19:09
DrForr	mst - That may be the case, but the only way I've found to do eval involves running scm_with_guile() which takes a callback I create. That callbac does scm_eval_string() and passes the marshalled list back out of the Guile thread, which I have to tear apart and pass back.	19:09
	I still have to do tests to prove that it's retaining the enironment thread in between invocations.	19:10
mst	this sounds like "it got more complicated since I last looked at it"	19:15
DrForr	Very likely.	19:15
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[Coke]	how agressive should we be about moving moarvm bug reports into moar rather than RT?	19:19
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vendethiel	m: multi sub infix:<+>(Str, Str) {}; say 3 + 4;	19:19
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«7␤»	19:19
[Coke]	e.g. https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=127374	19:19
DrForr	Whew, environment tests worked.	19:20
	Coupla days and 'guile-sub add($a,$b) { + a b }' may work :)	19:21
MadcapJake	where does panda/zef install modules to?	19:22
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ggoebel14	is it possible to use pointy block syntax on a list comparision with smart match? To turn something like: <x a m a x>[0..* div 2] ~~ <x a m a x>.reverse.[0..* div 2] into <x a m a x> -> $p { $p ~~ $p.reverse }	19:27
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ggoebel14	my $a = <x a m a x>; for $a -> $p { say $p.[0..* div 2] ~~ $p.reverse.[0..* div 2] };	19:35
	is it possible to do that without first assigning the list to $a?	19:36
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ggoebel14	m: { $^a ~~ $^a.reverse }(<x a m a x>);	19:44
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: ( no output )	19:44
ggoebel14	m: { say $^a ~~ $^a.reverse }(<x a m a x>);	19:44
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«True␤»	19:44
ggoebel14	m: { say $^a ~~ $^a.reverse }(<x a m a t>);	19:44
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«False␤»	19:44
musiKk	Is it expected that Rakudo doesn't implement everything from the specs yet? For example user-defined array indexing gives compile errors.	19:46
timotimo	m: given <x a m a x> { say $^a ~~ $^a.reverse }	19:46
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«True␤»	19:46
timotimo	musiKk: yeah, it is. sorry about that!	19:46
[Coke]	musiKk: the specs are the -tests-. the tests are expected to pass.	19:46
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[Coke]	not everything from the synopses is implemented, and may not be - some of that is speculative.	19:46
timotimo	[Coke]: do we only ship tests that pass and we've stripped out everything that's skipped?	19:47
musiKk	[Coke]: Yeah, that's true. I'm just perusing the design documents because I like to do that. :)	19:47
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timotimo	ah, right	19:48
	yeah the "specs", or rather "speculations" ;), aren't authoritative any more	19:49
	the ROAST has surpassed the specs half a year ago, or even earlier?	19:49
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ggoebel14	timotimo: thank you. that reads better left to right...	19:52
musiKk	The Synopses are a great source of information though. There is a lot of stuff I just don't find any documentation for.	19:53
timotimo	ggoebel14: if you need it to, you can also put the given at the end of the statement	19:54
[Coke]	timotimo: we don't "ship" tests.	19:54
timotimo	oh	19:55
[Coke]	... as release manager, I should not get that wrong, but I think I may have. :)	19:55
timotimo	well, fair enough	19:55
	i feel like i'm out of the loop :\	19:55
[Coke]	the targz has tests in it, I think; but we have yet to ship a second released version, so...	19:55
	but if we do, it'll be the 6.c branch, which is just the test files that we run, still with all the fudging in them.	19:56
	RT #127370 - do we expect -pe to even work?	19:56
	huh, guess so.	19:57
MadcapJake	when installing modules (via zef/panda) is the source code kept somewhere?	19:57
Skarsnik	Yes	19:57
	but it's 'unreadabl'	19:57
	aka /454545/8989844575454654646464	19:57
MadcapJake	so no readable code is kept? man, that's a bummer	19:57
timotimo	yeah, we do expect -pe to work	19:57
	however, /proc/* has already given us grief once before	19:57
	last time it was because the kernel said "it's 0 bytes big" and we were like "empty string it is!"	19:58
Skarsnik	MadcapJake, it's readable, it just the way compunit work make it impossible to find the file	19:58
MadcapJake	I thought they added the module name at the beginning now	19:58
Skarsnik	well you can try a ack 'module*mymodule' in panda stuff, but meh	19:58
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MadcapJake	Skarsnik: what do you mean by `a ack`?	20:00
Skarsnik	grep	20:00
	ack is a fancy grep	20:00
MadcapJake	oh, what's the format of the filenames?	20:01
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Skarsnik	well you can try to find the declaration of the class/module you want	20:02
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MadcapJake	Skarsnik: I'm seeing ~/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/panda/ext has a set of modules I've installed (and not mangled), is this old?	20:03
Skarsnik	No idea	20:03
MadcapJake	oh i think those are panda required deps	20:04
timotimo	that's just the panda folder	20:04
	like, a git clone of the panda repository	20:04
	it has a few modules it requires to bootstrap itself	20:04
	timotimo BBL	20:04
MadcapJake	isn't there at least a folder where they're all placed? I'm not having luck finding anything (`find ~/.rakudobrew -name File`)	20:06
DrForr	And I panic MoarVM. Must be doing something right.	20:07
hoelzro	does anyone have a problem where panda doesn't get installed into $prefix/share/perl6/site/bin ?	20:08
	I think it's since FROGGS' bin-prefix change yesterday	20:08
DrForr	hoelzro: On my work laptop, yes.	20:08
hoelzro	DrForr: for a while now? or just recently?	20:08
	my linenoise canary died yesterday claiming it couldn't find panda	20:08
	and sure enough, panda wasn't installed to my perl6 directory	20:09
[Coke]	hoelzro: that's been hitting a bunch of ecosystem travis builds, IIRC.	20:09
flussence	seems missing here too (I've got an hourly cronjob that reinstalls everything on one machine, `perl6` is there)	20:09
[Coke]	presumably a recent change somewhere in the toolchain.	20:09
hoelzro	ah ha	20:09
b2gills	.ask TimToady Should the right alternation take precedence? ｢say 'abc' ~~ / <:L> \| <:L><:L><:L>+ /｣	20:10
yoleaux	b2gills: I'll pass your message to TimToady.	20:10
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b2gills	.tell fireartist Please tell me that you aren't copying Games::Lacuna::Client wholesale to Perl 6. It is in desperate need of restructuring. I already did some of it. I would have done more, but I decided it would be easier to start from scratch (even in Perl 5). (never got a round tuit though)	20:11
yoleaux	b2gills: I'll pass your message to fireartist.	20:11
MadcapJake	what advantage does having these crazy long file/folder names have over just building a name from meta6.json (lib name + version, or something)	20:11
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b2gills	MadcapJake: Unicode on Posix systems	20:12
hoelzro	MadcapJake: well, for one, we don't have to worry about FS-specific details like which characters are illegal, or case sensitivity	20:13
FROGGS	hoelzro: >.<	20:13
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FROGGS	hoelzro: where does panda get installed to?	20:14
hoelzro	FROGGS: nowhere, it seems	20:14
FROGGS	O.o	20:14
hoelzro	nowhere under my installation prefix, anyway	20:14
	if I specify --bin-prefix by hand, it works	20:14
	I imagine specifying --prefix would fix the issue as well	20:14
FROGGS	hoelzro: hmmmm	20:15
MadcapJake	couldn't that just be easily worked though? Just create a translator that turns any name into the most stable name, all-lowercase, replace unicode with number, etc.	20:15
hoelzro	I'm guessing it has something to do with the stringification of the CUR, so you end up with something like "#inst/tmp/nom/...".IO	20:15
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FROGGS	ohh	20:15
hoelzro	MadcapJake: I think nine settled on a less-than-ideal solution that works, with the notion of revisiting it later	20:15
perlpilot	MadcapJake: a "generic transform" (like SHA for instance :) is better than a "highly specific to this one thing transform" like you just described.	20:15
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MadcapJake	ok, i just want to be able to find these files for my completion generator, and i'm going to need to understand the whole shebang, no ways around it :P	20:16
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MadcapJake	i found ~/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/dist/ has files that appear to describe each module and the name given to each subfile, is that accurate?	20:17
lizmat	computer: messages	20:17
yoleaux	15:38Z <[Coke]> lizmat: nom (I guess?) if we can cherry pick it to the release prep branch, great.	20:17
flussence	.oO( let's use punycode mangling for filenames, that way everyone's equally dissatisfied :)	20:18
MadcapJake	perlpilot: totally fine by me! just would love an easier experience delving into module files, I guess I'm spoiled by npm.	20:18
dalek	rakudo/nom: 85d20f3 \| lizmat++ \| src/core/ (2 files):	20:18
	rakudo/nom: STORE_AT_KEY doesn't return anything	20:18
	rakudo/nom:	20:18
	rakudo/nom: Makes initialization of hashes about 10% faster	20:18
	rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/85d20f3a44	20:18
FROGGS	hoelzro: confirmed	20:19
lizmat	.tell [Coke] 85d20f3 is the one to cherry pick	20:19
yoleaux	lizmat: I'll pass your message to [Coke].	20:19
hoelzro	FROGGS: why do you suppose panda silently fails?	20:19
FROGGS	hoelzro: no idea	20:19
b2gills	Sometimes a specialized transform can be more space efficient https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/66454/1147	20:20
FROGGS	m: say CompUnit::RepositoryRegistry.repository-for-name('site')	20:20
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«inst#/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/site␤»	20:20
FROGGS	m: say CompUnit::RepositoryRegistry.repository-for-name('site').Str	20:20
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/site␤»	20:20
nine	m: my $cu = $*REPO.need(CompUnit::DependencySpecification.new(:short-name<Test>)); say $cu.repo.prefix.child($cu.distribution.provides<Test>.values[0]<file>)	20:21
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«"/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/39D1BEBEB786F0DE0B82489F3F02F5C672CBA1F7".IO␤»	20:21
nine	No guessing needed actually	20:21
FROGGS	m: say CompUnit::RepositoryRegistry.repository-for-name('site').Stringy	20:21
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/site␤»	20:21
nine	m: my $cu = $*REPO.need(CompUnit::DependencySpecification.new(:short-name<Test>)); say $cu.repo.prefix.child('sources' ~ $cu.distribution.provides<Test>.values[0]<file>)	20:21
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«"/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/sources39D1BEBEB786F0DE0B82489F3F02F5C672CBA1F7".IO␤»	20:21
nine	m: my $cu = $*REPO.need(CompUnit::DependencySpecification.new(:short-name<Test>)); say $cu.repo.prefix.child('sources/' ~ $cu.distribution.provides<Test>.values[0]<file>)	20:21
[Coke]	nine: feel free to cherry pick 85d20f3 if it looks good for you. :)	20:21
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«"/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/sources/39D1BEBEB786F0DE0B82489F3F02F5C672CBA1F7".IO␤»	20:21
yoleaux	20:19Z <lizmat> [Coke]: 85d20f3 is the one to cherry pick	20:21
[Coke]	lizmat++	20:21
MadcapJake	Anyone interested, p6dx can do some completions now! https://github.com/madcapjake/p6dx It still needs to traverse any subfolders and I want to allow you to specify `--meta` and it will provide completions from any depended on module (that's where my questions come from)	20:23
Amendil	m: @array = 0, 42, 1337; say "I have {+@array} elements";	20:24
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«=== SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/hfxIOlvbv7␤Variable '@array' is not declared. Did you mean any of these?␤ Array␤ array␤␤at /tmp/hfxIOlvbv7:1␤------> <BOL> ⏏ @array = 0, 42, 1337; say "I have {+@arr ␤»	20:24
Amendil	m: my @array = 0, 42, 1337; say "I have {+@array} elements";	20:24
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«I have 3 elements␤»	20:24
hoelzro	MadcapJake++ # nice, I'll have to check that out!	20:25
MadcapJake	Thanks! It can generate ctags and a json format too. Eventually it will also have a linter with customizable rulesets.	20:26
nine	MadcapJake: https://gist.github.com/niner/06792102587a79940294	20:26
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nine	flussence: I actually think that punycode would be a good solution since it would keep most file names untouched.	20:27
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diakopter	ely-se: what sort of type system?	20:27
Amendil	m: my @array = 0, 42, 1337; say "I have {+@array[0,1]} elements";	20:27
camelia	rakudo-moar cf7706: OUTPUT«I have 2 elements␤»	20:27
Amendil	oh	20:28
ely-se	diakopter: structural	20:28
diakopter	ely-se: not dependent?	20:29
ely-se	no value-dependent types, no	20:29
diakopter	for a programming language?	20:29
MadcapJake	nine++ This is perfect! I can just integrate that right in. Thanks so much!	20:29
nine	Just updated it to print info about the dist meta data	20:30
diakopter	ely-se: I just mean, for which language/prover?	20:31
ely-se	custom one	20:31
	doesn't exist yet	20:32
	lisp-like	20:32
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FROGGS	hoelzro: I've got a patch	20:34
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FROGGS	hoelzro: please try latest panda	20:35
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flussence	shell(q{strace -s 255 perl6 -MTest -e 1 2>&1 \| fgrep sources}, :out).out.get.comb(/\"(.*?)\"/).put # shorter :)	20:38
dalek	rakudo/2016.01-preparation: b6c3321 \| lizmat++ \| src/core/ (2 files):	20:39
	rakudo/2016.01-preparation: STORE_AT_KEY doesn't return anything	20:39
	rakudo/2016.01-preparation:	20:39
	rakudo/2016.01-preparation: Makes initialization of hashes about 10% faster	20:39
	rakudo/2016.01-preparation: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b6c3321066	20:39
FROGGS	*ALL* - please try this release candidate of Rakudo Star: http://froggs.de/perl6/rakudo-star-2016.01-RC1.tar.gz	20:39
	*ALL* - please test it and report bugs to the rakudo/star repository, but keep in mind it is an RC0, so dont update your production servers just now	20:40
nine	For the record: I'm not entirely happy with picking this patch, as it _does_ change semantics of a method. But it's an upper case method apparently unused in the ecosystem and if we change this, we'd better do it right away.	20:40
ely-se	WTB P6CRE	20:41
DrForr	nine: Got it working, lots more trivia to get through though.	20:42
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nine	FROGGS: btw. thanks for taking on R* :)	20:43
FROGGS	nine: sure	20:44
	nine: hope we get some feedback	20:44
Skarsnik	FROGGS, you should probably contact distrib maintainer? x)	20:44
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FROGGS	Skarsnik: star is not packagable currently anyway sadly	20:46
	Skarsnik: and since star is a distro, they actually are not meant to package it	20:46
nine	why?	20:47
[Coke]	nine: if the method isn't explicitly tested in p6.c, it's fair game.	20:47
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[Coke]	packaging folks can emulate star, but why would they package it directly?	20:47
FROGGS	nine: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=126894	20:47
[Coke]	it was a stopgap for folks until packages packaged.	20:47
FROGGS	[Coke]: aye	20:47
[Coke]	FROGGS: is it based on the prep branch?	20:48
	(the 2016.01 star you're rc'ing?)	20:48
FROGGS	e.g. debian should package moar, nqp, rakudo, panda, modules on its own etc	20:48
	[Coke]: yes	20:48
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[Coke]	ok. I assume you need an actual release of the compiler before you pull the trigger.	20:49
	or at least, would like.	20:49
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moritz	[Coke]: fwiw you have my green light on the prep branch	20:52
nine	FROGGS: actually the right solution seems to be to delete the generated precomp files before packaging as I do in https://build.opensuse.org/package/view_file/home:niner9:branches:devel:languages:parrot/rakudo/rakudo.spec?expand=1	20:52
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FROGGS	ahh, hmmm	20:53
	nine: please suggest that on RT but I think packaging star is still the wrong approach	20:53
nine	Always remember: the precomp files created during module installation are pretty useless right now.	20:53
	FROGGS: yes, individual packages are definitely the way to go	20:54
moritz	==> Fetching JSON::Fast	20:56
	Please remove leading 'v' from perl version in JSON::Fast's meta info.	20:56
flussence	is there an RT# for that particular precomp bug, for reference?	20:57
moritz	any chance we can get that cleaned up for the star release?	20:57
FROGGS	moritz: sure, that's timotimo's, right?	20:57
nine	FROGGS: added the info to the ticket	20:58
FROGGS	nine++	20:58
moritz	FROGGS: right; I'll pull-request	20:58
[Coke]	if we're happy, I can try to do the release tonight.	20:58
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[Coke]	(for the prep) - nine did all the hard work; I'll try to include some of the points from the blog post I just made about what the plans are going forward.	20:59
moritz	https://github.com/timo/json_fast/pull/11	21:01
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El_Che	\o/ bowtie! long time no see	21:08
AlexDaniel	m: say ‘hello’.bytes	21:09
camelia	rakudo-moar 85d20f: OUTPUT«Method 'bytes' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/ZhAKeaWz1W line 1␤␤»	21:09
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AlexDaniel	is there any way to know how many bytes are there?	21:09
	m: say ‘hello’.codes	21:09
camelia	rakudo-moar 85d20f: OUTPUT«5␤»	21:09
leont	That question is not sensible	21:09
	You can only answer that question in the context of a specific encoding, such as utf8	21:09
AlexDaniel	leont: what would make it more sensible to you?	21:09
	ah ok, of course. I just default to UTF-8	21:10
moritz	AlexDaniel: you can .encode first	21:10
AlexDaniel	moritz: right!	21:10
moritz	m: say 'hello'.encode('UTF-8').bytes	21:10
camelia	rakudo-moar 85d20f: OUTPUT«5␤»	21:10
moritz	m: say 'hello'.encode('UTF-16').bytes	21:10
camelia	rakudo-moar 85d20f: OUTPUT«10␤»	21:10
AlexDaniel	leont: that's a good point, actually. Thank you	21:10
moritz	m: say 'hello'.encode('UTF-7').bytes	21:10
camelia	rakudo-moar 85d20f: OUTPUT«Unknown string encoding: 'utf-7'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/AeB_qA9dDD line 1␤␤»	21:10
diakopter	FROGGS: seems to install fine on a fresh Mint 17.3 64-bit in VirtualBox on mac	21:10
moritz	still installing modules here	21:11
FROGGS	diakopter: ohh awesome, thank you	21:11
AlexDaniel	m: m: say 'hello'.encode.bytes	21:11
camelia	rakudo-moar 85d20f: OUTPUT«5␤»	21:11
	ZoffixWin is not convinced asking people to remove "v" is a sensible approach.	21:11
ZoffixWin	Why not just regex it out?	21:11
FROGGS	diakopter: can you use its panda to install a module?	21:11
ZoffixWin	During install. DWIM and not annoy people.	21:11
[Coke]	arent' we already dwimming and then warning?	21:12
ZoffixWin	panda refuses to install the module.	21:12
	Unless this changed in the past 24 hours	21:12
[Coke]	k	21:13
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diakopter	FROGGS: er, do you want the warnings the install outputted?	21:13
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FROGGS	diakopter: no, just wanna know if the panda is in a good shape	21:15
hoelzro	FROGGS: thanks, will do!	21:15
ZoffixWin	Ahh, never mind me. It does DWIM and warn. Last night, along with the "v" a person was using "v6.0.0", so panda was refusing to install it for 6.c	21:16
diakopter	FROGGS: only suggestion for top-level `make install` - add some message echo saying the Rakudo Star installation is done; currently the last line is ==> Successfully installed Debugger::UI::CommandLine	21:17
	also helpful would be a message saying into which path(s) stuff was installed	21:17
FROGGS	hmmmm, that makes sense	21:17
diakopter	like, I don't know where to go looking for panda after it finished	21:18
FROGGS	yeah	21:18
	a nice summary at the end would be nice	21:18
diakopter	(or which dir to add to PATH if I wanted to run panda)	21:19
	like, do I need to add install/share/perl6/bin	21:21
flussence	m: put $*REPO.repo-chain[1].writeable-path.child(‘bin’) # least-insane way to determine panda path, afaik	21:21
camelia	rakudo-moar 85d20f: OUTPUT«/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/site/bin␤»	21:21
diakopter	in addition to install/bin	21:21
	FROGGS: ^	21:21
FROGGS	diakopter: only the install/bin	21:22
hoelzro	FROGGS: works for me now!	21:24
	thanks!	21:24
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diakopter	FROGGS: but if I want to run stuff panda installs?	21:27
FROGGS	ummm	21:27
	ups	21:27
	yeah, there is a thinko somewhere :/	21:27
ZoffixWin	You have to add two paths ATM. The ones that are listed on http://perl6.org/downloads/	21:28
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ZoffixWin	Otherwise binaries you install with panda aren't found	21:28
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FROGGS	damn, that renders the bindir patch rather useless >.<	21:28
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diakopter	FROGGS: so we have install/share/perl6/bin and install/share/perl6/site/bin	21:29
	in addition to install/bin	21:29
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FROGGS	C:\rakudo\bin\panda	21:33
	Cannot unbox a type object	21:33
	-.-	21:33
moritz	I get the same error on LInux	21:35
	with a backtrace	21:35
FROGGS	wait, I seem to have an old perl6 binary somewhere	21:36
	moritz too	21:36
moritz	guess I should patch PATH	21:36
FROGGS	~/dev/star/work-m/rakudo-star-2016.01-RC1$ install/bin/panda	21:37
	Panda -- Perl 6 Module Installer	21:37
	[...]	21:37
moritz	I've removed the other $PATH elements, and I still get the unbox error :(	21:37
	ah no, sneaky; I had a bin/perl6 in my $HOME	21:38
	and didn't notice, because I usually invoke perl6-m directly	21:38
FROGGS	okay, panda works fine after getting the other perl6 out of PATH	21:42
	... on windows that is	21:43
	I'll muse about the bindir stuff, and potentially revert the patches to rakudo and panda	21:43
moritz	can confirm it works here too	21:44
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FROGGS	nice	21:45
	I'll add a nice welcome msg at the end of the installation as diakopter++ suggested, but that'll happen tomorrow	21:45
hankache	hi FROGGS	21:47
FROGGS	hi hankache	21:48
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hankache	FROGGS i updated 2 weeks back docs/perl6intro.pdf on the master branch of rakudo/star	21:49
	FROGGS can you use this version instead of the one in the release branch?	21:49
	FROGGS the one in master is the updated one.	21:49
FROGGS	sure, will do	21:50
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hankache	thanks FROGGS++	21:50
FROGGS	*ALL* - MS Windows® Rakudo Star release candidate available, please test: http://froggs.de/perl6/rakudo-star-2016.01-x86_64-RC1%20(JIT).msi	21:53
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FROGGS	gnight	21:55
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moritz	sleep well FROGGS++	21:59
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pmurias	is there any reason for using --/tests instead of --no-tests?	22:15
	(in zef)	22:15
jdv79	isn't the convention --no$thing ?	22:16
perlpilot	probably becuase rakudo's command line parser doesn't grok --no-tests, but it does grok --/tests ?	22:17
	That would be my guess anyway	22:17
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pmurias	--/$options seems really alien	22:18
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leont	Yeah	22:19
perlpilot	++foo .... ++/foo is pretty alien too	22:20
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jdv79	is that doc'd anywhere?	22:21
perlpilot	It's in one of the synopses .... S19 I think	22:22
	yeah, S19	22:22
	leont is tempted to write a Getopt::Long, but it's actually rather non-trivial to do it well	22:23
perlpilot	jdv79: start reading at http://design.perl6.org/S19.html#Options_and_Values	22:23
jdv79	oh, its in s06	22:24
	nice	22:24
perlpilot	oh, S06 too (makes sense since MAIN is a routine :)	22:24
Skarsnik	good night #perl6	22:29
jdv79	cya	22:29
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El_Che	leont: please do. I love the batteries-include Main approach. But it's just too basic. E.g. the order of switches is significant, also the --option=value instead of "--option value" is pretty alien on *nix (e.g. when you can use shell autocompletion)	22:31
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leont	I have no idea on what a good 6ish interface would be like yet, though	22:31
jdv79	can DrForr's p5 to p6 thing work on that?	22:32
hoelzro	you could always write a MAIN::Getopt module that exports a MAIN-HELPER that calls MAIN the "right" way	22:32
jdv79	i keep meaning to try it	22:32
hoelzro	er, MAIN_HELPER	22:32
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perlpilot	hoelzro: MAIN_HELPER is alien to P6, it should be MAIN-HELPER ;-)	22:33
hoelzro	perlpilot: agreed, we just need to change it =)	22:33
	that way, you keep the sixey MAIN, but you get Getopt-friendly argument processing	22:34
	best of both worlds =)	22:34
	leont: ↑	22:34
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leont	Interesting…	22:34
perlpilot	indeed.	22:34
hoelzro	I've been thinking about writing that for a while, but I'm lazy =P	22:35
RabidGravy	right that's me done for the day	22:35
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	hoelzro does a lot of thinking about writing things	22:36
jdv79	isn't MAIN special? you'd have to grab the old one and replace it, no?	22:37
hoelzro	jdv79: you just need to make sure to call it from MAIN_HELPER	22:38
zostay	hoelzro: hey, you said you had an idea regarding my threading pains, this is the first time i've seen you and i've been too lazy so far to enter #moarvm	22:38
hoelzro	zostay: you can always ping me, even if I'm not active =)	22:38
	I'm always lurking, but my activity varies wildly =)	22:38
	zostay: if you post the exact source that's abort()ing for you, I'd be happy to take a look	22:38
jdv79	but when one runs "perl6 foo.p6" and foo.p6 has a MAIN that get's called, right?	22:39
	*gets	22:39
hoelzro	jdv79: yes; all because rakudo calls MAIN_HELPER to call MAIN ;)	22:39
	well, rakudo sets up a call to MAIN_HELPER, which in turn calls MAIN	22:39
jdv79	oh, i didn't know MAIN_HELPER was a thing. nice.	22:39
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ugexe	if yuo have a module that has a MAIN_HELPER `use`d by foo.p6 then it loads the modules version	22:39
hoelzro	it's not a spec'd thing, but it's a rakudo thing	22:39
	exactly	22:40
	I did a PoC on it a week or so ago	22:40
perlpilot	It should be a spec thing though.	22:40
ugexe	but if you have 2 modules that do that it doesnt work	22:40
hoelzro	perlpilot: I completely agree	22:40
ugexe	so you cant have like a pluggable app that adds commands that sho wup in usage	22:40
hoelzro	ugexe: yeah, that's tricky	22:40
	although you can have a single MAIN_HELPER impl be smart about looking at multi candidates	22:41
	and inspecting their signatures for things	22:41
jdv79	sounds magically complicated	22:41
hoelzro	it's complicated for the implementor so that the user can benefit	22:42
	sound familiar? =P	22:42
	MAIN_HELPER is responsible for taking @*ARGS and calling MAIN; whatever else you add is up to you	22:42
zostay	hoelzro: the exact source that's aborting is here, if you run this test: https://github.com/zostay/HTTP-Supply/blob/master/t/http-1.0.t	22:43
hoelzro	zostay: thanks, I'll have a look later tonight	22:43
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hoelzro	here's a quick exmaple of a MAIN_HELPER module: https://gist.github.com/hoelzro/7fd925b4f4617a5c46b5	22:47
	apologies for the sloppiness	22:47
zostay	awesome, i'm terrible at responding on irc, btw... it'd be better to file a ticket on github or email me at the address listed on github/cpan/etc.	22:48
hoelzro	noted =)	22:49
properly	Plse help, from rosettacode 'update a configuration file' we have this line: %changes.=map({; .key.uc => .value });	22:50
diakopter	oh hey Andrew	22:50
zostay	you, sup matt?	22:50
	er.. yo	22:50
properly	Without the initial semicolon in the code block, get this: Method 'count' not found for invocant of class 'Hash'	22:50
jdv79	the semi is disambiguating the {} into a code block. without it seems its a hash constructor.	22:51
	:(	22:51
	well, forcing maybe is a better term	22:51
perlpilot	what's with the :( ?	22:51
properly	Works by using $^A ie {$^a.key.uc => $^a.value}	22:51
jdv79	or -> too, right?	22:51
properly	yes pointy block also works, but the ; is so good , why does it work?	22:52
jdv79	its just unfortunate we still have that issue of {} being used for 2 things and the choice is not always obvious	22:52
properly	ok disambiguates	22:52
	thanks	22:53
geekosaur	yes, it has to guess what it is and while it is smarter than perl 5 was about it, your {} looks like a pair inside and therefore a hash constructor	22:53
properly	tk you	22:53
geekosaur	it's the price of using the same syntax for two different things	22:54
perlpilot	jdv79: well, that's why we have some syntactic disambiguation :)	22:54
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jdv79	it just feels like a p5 style of issue to me	23:00
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hoelzro	zostay: does that test always abort?	23:15
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hoelzro	zostay: also, which OS is this on?	23:16
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nanis	FROGGS: RC0 built without problems on Windows 10 using VS2015. nmake rakudo-test passed all. I expect there will be two failures with spec tests, but I don't know if there is anything that can be done about those.	23:24
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hoelzro	.tell zostay I can't reproduce the issue on my box (64-bit Arch Linux); let me know when you're around so we can figure this out =)	23:54
yoleaux	hoelzro: I'll pass your message to zostay.	23:54

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