IRCloggy #perl6 2018-11-07

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2018-11-07

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woolfy stmuk_: Picture on Perl 6 Facebook group that sported you and Sue has been removed from the group, and replaced by a picture of the three country point at Perl.00:14
yoleaux 6 Nov 2018 16:51Z <CIAvash> woolfy: thinking back, "pretending" was a strong word, sorry for using it.00:14
woolfy stmuk_:00:14
stmuk_: please feel free to check on it: https://www.facebook.com/groups/perl6/00:14
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El_Che just had a look00:22
damn, not getting facebook any time soon00:22
such an annoying format00:22
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timotimo how can people live with sacrificing about a third of their screen real estate to a big white box?00:23
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woolfy Feel free to delete the picture and replace it by something of your own liking.00:40
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Xliff It's Tuesday, Election Day here in the US.02:24
And I am steadfastly trying to ignore the coverage.02:24
Kinda hard, tho...02:24
So I'm sipping a Cognac and Coke and listening to music.02:25
Can someone tell me the best way to pass a function to a C-Callback?02:25
method some_meth (&some_func (Type1, Type2, Type3)) seems like it should work, but doesn't.02:26
lookatme_q It should work, what error you get ?02:34
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Xliff lookatme_q: Cannot unpack or Capture `&sort-func`. To create a Capture, add parentheses: \(...)03:10
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lookatme_q Xliff, Oh, that's the sub signature error, the correct syntax is &some_func:(Type1 ...03:46
I am not sure what's the `&some_func (Type1 ...` is03:47
what03:47
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Xliff Well, now I get "Constraint type check failed in binding to parameter '&sort_func'; expected anonymous constraint to be met but got -> $a, $b --> int32 {...04:19
"04:19
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Xliff All I really want is a signature that can take either of these: "$a.pass_func(-> $a, $b --> gint { ... })" OR "sub func($a, $b --> gint) { ... }; $a.pass_func(&func)" and pass that to a C function.04:20
pass_func, in this case is a method.04:21
m: my $a = -> $aa, $bb --> gint { 1; }; say $a.WHAT04:29
camelia rakudo-moar 8b93ec9f5: OUTPUT: «=== SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Type 'gint' is not declared. Did you mean any of these?␤ Int␤ int␤ UInt␤ uint␤␤at <tmp>:1␤------> my $a = -> $aa, $bb --> gint ⏏ { 1; }; say $a.WHAT ␤»04:29
Xliff m: my $a = -> $aa, $bb --> Int { 1; }; say $a.WHAT04:29
camelia rakudo-moar 8b93ec9f5: OUTPUT: «(Block)␤»04:29
Xliff m: my $a = -> $aa, $bb --> Int { 1; }; my $b = sub($a, $b) returns Int { 1; }; say $a.WHAT; say $b.WHAT;04:30
camelia rakudo-moar 8b93ec9f5: OUTPUT: «=== SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Cannot use variable $b in declaration to initialize itself␤at <tmp>:1␤------> a, $bb --> Int { 1; }; my $b = sub($a, $ ⏏ b) returns Int { 1; }; say $a.WHAT; say ␤ expecting any of:␤ …»04:30
Xliff m: my $a = -> $aa, $bb --> Int { 1; }; my $b = sub($aa, $bb) returns Int { 1; }; say $a.WHAT; say $b.WHAT;04:30
camelia rakudo-moar 8b93ec9f5: OUTPUT: «=== SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '$aa' is not declared␤at <tmp>:1␤------> -> $aa, $bb --> Int { 1; }; my $b = sub( ⏏ $aa, $bb) returns Int { 1; }; say $a.WHA ␤»04:30
Xliff m: my $a = -> $aa, $bb --> Int { 1; }; my $b = sub(Int, Int) returns Int { 1; }; say $a.WHAT; say $b.WHAT;04:30
camelia rakudo-moar 8b93ec9f5: OUTPUT: «=== SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Two terms in a row␤at <tmp>:1␤------> bb --> Int { 1; }; my $b = sub(Int, Int) ⏏ returns Int { 1; }; say $a.WHAT; say $b ␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ …»04:30
Xliff m: my $a = -> $aa, $bb --> Int { 1; }; my $b = sub(Int, Int --> Int) { 1; }; say $a.WHAT; say $b.WHAT;04:30
camelia rakudo-moar 8b93ec9f5: OUTPUT: «=== SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unable to parse expression in argument list; couldn't find final ')' (corresponding starter was at line 1)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> $bb --> Int { 1; }; my $b = sub(Int, Int ⏏ --> Int) { 1; }; say $…» 04:30
Xliff m: my $a = -> $aa, $bb --> Int { 1; }; my $b = sub (Int, Int --> Int) { 1; }; say $a.WHAT; say $b.WHAT;04:31
camelia rakudo-moar 8b93ec9f5: OUTPUT: «(Block)␤(Sub+{Callable[Int]})␤»04:31
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Xliff m: sub do-func(&func) { &func($a) }; do-func(-> $a, $b { say $a.flip });05:37
camelia rakudo-moar 8b93ec9f5: OUTPUT: «=== SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '$a' is not declared␤at <tmp>:1␤------> sub do-func(&func) { &func( ⏏ $a) }; do-func(-> $a, $b { say $a.flip } ␤»05:37
Xliff m: sub do-func(&func) { my $a = 42; &func($a) }; do-func(-> $a, $b { say $a.flip });05:38
camelia rakudo-moar 8b93ec9f5: OUTPUT: «Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»05:38
Xliff m: sub do-func(&func) { my $a = 42; &func($a) }; do-func(-> $a { say $a.flip });05:38
camelia rakudo-moar 8b93ec9f5: OUTPUT: «24␤»05:38
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Kaiepi ok, the jvm can run tools/build/install-core-dist but not moar06:02
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holyghost I'll try to arrange AI::Agent on github this week, compilable06:48
Then later on I'll fix Bayes::Learn and Game::Markov06:51
I might make an AI::Agent::Nintendo for rom agents. Then have a simple dispatch method for agent classes based on an Actor class06:53
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Kaiepi figured out how to get tools/build/install-core-dist.p6 to run07:05
i just need to pass -Ilib to it in the makefile07:05
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holyghost I've Actor and Agent.pm6 are compilable, I'll post later on07:16
s/I've/I've got07:18
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AlexDaniel “An official (heh!) spec release of 6.d illustrates Camelia smashed against a wall of marketing.”08:32
andrewshitov++ # humor :)08:32
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El_Che AlexDaniel: in days like this I start to envy programming languages with less controversial names, like Brainfuck08:35
ok, let's tweet this08:35
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scimon Morning all.08:58
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scimon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt8SrZ_V_50 : A video. On using MAIN with Perl6 mostly. :)09:24
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holyghost I'm going to do a AI::Agent::Embedded for NES and M68k binaries09:57
Then I can add on09:57
a NES is a embedded system with rom code and so is the M68000 microcode09:57
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holyghost It's just a parser within the agent to reverse engineer and stock it10:01
though AI::Agent is now at 127 lines10:02
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woolfy Claudio Ramirez: "what's with the xeno?", "more drama?" -> check in history, I use that nick when not at home and log in from my mobile. And yes, I love drama. I hate drama. But xenowoolfy as a name is not meant to add drama. My oldest nickname online is Xenolupa, and that was 27 years ago on CompuServe.10:31
lizmat El_Che: ^^^10:38
El_Che woolfy: the drama was about stmuk and facebook10:47
the 2 questions are unrelated10:47
buggable New CPAN upload: AI-Agent-0.2.1.tar.gz by HOLYGHOST http://modules.perl6.org/dist/AI::Agent:cpan:HOLYGHOST11:01
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holyghost I've added AI-Agent to github.com/theholyghost211:21
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Zoffix .tell TimToady please respond to https://github.com/perl6/user-experience/issues/3312:07
yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to TimToady.12:07
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buggable New CPAN upload: AI-Agent-Music-0.2.1.tar.gz by HOLYGHOST https://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/H/HO/HOLYGHOST/Perl6/AI-Agent-Music-0.2.1.tar.gz12:11
holyghost I just uploaded AI-Agent-Music to github : github.com/theholyghost212:11
It needs a parser12:12
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lucasb Taking a look at the Node.js project, it looks like they are very structured with Foundation Board of Directors, Technical Steering Committee, Working Groups, etc.12:12
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holyghost a parser in the sense that it should parser further on on music links and so on12:12
lucasb I think a little more structure to this project would be a good thing12:13
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lucasb P6 is maturing, attracting people12:13
holyghost it is :-)12:14
I'm in for matlab functionality :-)12:14
lucasb But I accept that the core devs maybe want some freedom12:15
... of action :)12:16
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holyghost eco: AI::Agent::Music12:17
buggable holyghost, Nothing found12:17
holyghost I'm going to do some parsing tomorrow :-) I might want to turn in natuaral language processing with a grammar12:21
lucasb I want to open 2 issues to formally request {blog,wiki}.perl6.org websites for this project. Is perl6/user-experience an appropriate place for this? At least someone supports these ideas?12:25
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AlexDaniel lucasb: I think it is a good idea to wait a bit before starting to discuss this stuff12:26
lucasb: everyone is too emotional right now12:26
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lucasb AlexDaniel: agreed, thanks for the advice :)12:27
lizmat AlexDaniel++12:27
lucasb so much passion12:27
AlexDaniel lucasb: as for the wiki, I think it is needed (there were a couple of cases in the past). Right now stuff ends up here: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki12:29
lucasb: there's an interesting question as to which wiki engine should be used :)12:29
lucasb MediaWiki, otherwise don't even bother :)12:30
AlexDaniel lucasb: I mean, surely there are many great ones, but we love dogfooding, right?12:30
lucasb perl 5 had an SocialText wiki, it didn't worked12:30
nobody was familiar with the interface. everybody knows wikipedia12:30
AlexDaniel perl5 also has oddmuse, and there's now oddmuse written in perl 6 https://github.com/kensanata/oddmuse612:31
it's in very early stages, so kinda not ready12:31
lucasb I understand that. (Oddmuse (5) user myself :)12:31
But I still think MediaWiki is the most appropriate one and robust for this situation12:32
My idea is that only registered users would be able to edit pages. This avoid the spam/vandalism problem, right?12:32
AlexDaniel lucasb: yeah, maybe. I'm not insisting on anything, just listing the options :)12:32
lucasb: I dislike wikis that can't be edited without going through all the hoops to get your account ready… I just end up not contributing at all…12:34
but it depends on what purposes we want to use it for12:34
maybe using github accounts is possible? Like through OAuth apps or what is it called? I'm not sure12:34
this: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:OAuth2_Client12:35
lucasb Well, if you are an P6 enthusiast, you only need to register an account once, and enjoy later. I think it's a good tradeoff to not have to deal with outside people disrupting the wiki12:38
AlexDaniel yeah, but then we're missing out on microcontributions12:40
with MediaWiki I'm pretty sure we can have very fine control over privileges and stuff, so that important pages are not disrupted12:41
lucasb right, maybe it should start open and only get restricted if we face problems12:41
needs an Apache server, PHP/MySQL instance. where would this run? in the p6c hack machine?12:42
AlexDaniel lucasb: here's a repo that is related: https://github.com/perl6/infrastructure-doc12:43
holyghost AFAIK the wikie syntax matters12:43
s/wikie/wiki12:44
AlexDaniel wonders if this extension is working at all https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Markdown12:45
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holyghost I meant in your browser12:45
AlexDaniel holyghost: ?12:46
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AlexDaniel lucasb: perhaps start with a docker image and then we figure out where to run it later :)12:46
lucasb yes. I rememebered I had already populated an MediaWiki wiki with P6 content. I'll see if I can ressurect it12:47
holyghost AlexDaniel: The wiki syntax in editing your browser should be straightforward12:47
AlexDaniel holyghost: yeah, but that's the point of that extension12:48
holyghost AlexDaniel: else you have to go to the help file12:48
lucasb if Mediaw12:48
holyghost FWIW12:48
Don't turn in P6 just for wiki12:48
lucasb if MediaWiki is chosen, then I think we should start with the standard MediaWiki syntax, and add anything later12:48
holyghost You have to manage your users12:49
AlexDaniel: I cannot lookup the extension here12:49
AlexDaniel lucasb: I… I don't know… can't we try that markdown extension first?12:50
personally I don't know mediawiki syntax, even though I've been wiki-ing a lot…12:50
that “I don't know” lines up vertically :D12:51
lucasb: oooh… right, we had a wiki12:52
I forgot :)12:52
it'd be good to figure out what went wrong with it12:52
holyghost I don't want sf.net syntax12:52
I'd rather be smalltalking on c2.com :-)12:53
AlexDaniel lucasb: https://web.archive.org/web/20130521070045/http://wiki.perl6.org/12:53
holyghost c2.com was the 1st wikiwikiweb, they did'nt invent that solo12:56
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lucasb yeah, I think the previous one was running Gitit (in Haskell)12:57
holyghost lol12:58
lucasb one more reason we should choose a mainstream engine :)12:58
holyghost :-)12:58
"Choose your syntax" TMOTOWTDI12:58
lucasb although I like the idea of a git-backed wiki for my own personal usage, but not for a big open source project12:58
holyghost true12:59
To be honest, we need some hackers for the wikiweb imp.13:01
smite it on a public repo and then we can follow13:03
As I said, *turn on* your wiki syntax13:04
I'd be glad to help13:05
eco: AI::Agent::Music13:11
buggable holyghost, Nothing found13:11
scimon eco: AI::Agent13:14
buggable scimon, AI::Agent 'AI network Agent system': http://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/H/HO/HOLYGHOST/Perl/AI-Agent-0.2.1.tar.gz 1 other matching results: https://modules.perl6.org/s/AI%3A%3AAgent 13:14
scimon holyghost: It looks like it doesn't pull out the sub modules.13:14
holyghost I see13:15
scimon zef search finds it though.13:16
holyghost ok13:16
botcherous CPAN parser ?13:16
zef search AI::Agent::Music finds it ?13:17
I don't know CPAN syntax for submodules of AI::Agent13:17
If zef finds it, with my web address it's ok13:18
it's the CPAN agent then13:19
Kaiepi i can't install zef atm13:22
it just hangs when i try13:22
holyghost ok13:23
It's a parser issue13:23
cpan serves :-)13:24
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holyghost It's a deliberate syntax with AI-Agent-Music as subclass13:26
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CIAvash 💭 What if TimToady sees the mess and doesn't come back? 😀 13:32
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holyghost eco: AI::Agent::Music13:38
buggable holyghost, Nothing found13:38
holyghost eco: AI::Agent13:38
buggable holyghost, AI::Agent 'AI network Agent system': http://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/H/HO/HOLYGHOST/Perl/AI-Agent-0.2.1.tar.gz 1 other matching results: https://modules.perl6.org/s/AI%3A%3AAgent 13:38
Geth ¦ ecosystem: a4f23fd24e | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list13:38
¦ ecosystem: Remove unsupported modules 13:38
¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/a4f23fd24e13:38
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holyghost ok. zef finds it13:39
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holyghost Kaiepi: you might want to do a fresh install, older versions work on older systems13:46
it's called POSIX :-)13:47
scimon (Sorry in a meeting)13:47
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lizmat CIAvash: then we'd have to figure out things amongst ourselves13:49
CIAvash lizmat: I was just joking 🙂 13:50
Kaiepi holyghost problem is i can't do a perfectly fresh install since tools/build/install-core-dist.p6 refuses to run with moar as the backend13:52
it works with the jvm, but i can't install zef using it because one of the ops zef uses is unsupported13:53
holyghost Kaiepi: lookup tags like --gen-moar13:56
bazzaar lizmat: I agree whole-heartedly with your 'ramblings' article, and look forward to reading your perl6 *weekly's*13:56
Kaiepi i've already done that, didn't make any difference13:59
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lizmat bazzaar: thank you for your kind words14:01
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poohman m: say "Hello"14:55
camelia rakudo-moar 8b93ec9f5: OUTPUT: «Hello␤»14:55
poohman m: my Str $contents = '{name: Winfred}{name: Asher}';$contents ~~ s/ '}'\s*'{' / '}' \n '{' /; say $contents;14:55
camelia rakudo-moar 8b93ec9f5: OUTPUT: «=== SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unable to parse expression in single quotes; couldn't find final "'" (corresponding starter was at line 1)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> '}'\s*'{' / '}' \n '{' /; say $contents; ⏏ <EOL> ␤ expecting …»14:55
poohman m: my Str $contents = '{name: Winfred}{name: Asher}';$contents ~~ s/ '}'\s*'{' / \n /; say $contents;14:56
camelia rakudo-moar 8b93ec9f5: OUTPUT: «{name: Winfred ␤ name: Asher}␤»14:56
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poohman m: my Str $contents = '{name: Winfred}{name: Asher}';$contents ~~ s/ '}'\s*'{' / '}\n{' /; say $contents;14:57
camelia rakudo-moar 8b93ec9f5: OUTPUT: «=== SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unable to parse expression in single quotes; couldn't find final "'" (corresponding starter was at line 1)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> s/ '}'\s*'{' / '}\n{' /; say $contents; ⏏ <EOL> ␤ expecting …»14:57
poohman m: my Str $contents = '{name: Winfred}{name: Asher}';$contents ~~ s/ '}'\s*'{' / "}\n{" /; say $contents;14:57
camelia rakudo-moar 8b93ec9f5: OUTPUT: «=== SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unable to parse expression in double quotes; couldn't find final '"' (corresponding starter was at line 1)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> s/ '}'\s*'{' / "}\n{" /; say $contents; ⏏ <EOL> ␤ expecting …»14:57
poohman hello everybody - any idea how I can include the braces also in the substitution?14:58
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moritz poohman: try "}\n\{"15:01
poohman: {...} inside a double-quoted string starts a closure15:02
poohman m: my Str $contents = '{name: Winfred}{name: Asher}';$contents ~~ s/ '}'\s*'{' / "}\n\{" /; say $contents;15:02
camelia rakudo-moar 8b93ec9f5: OUTPUT: «{name: Winfred "}␤{" name: Asher}␤»15:02
TrumpOwnsYou → Wrongvoice15:02
poohman moritz - thanks - so the second brace made it think that it was a start of a closure??15:04
moritz poohman: correct15:05
m: say "2 * 4 == {2 * 4}"15:05
camelia rakudo-moar 8b93ec9f5: OUTPUT: «2 * 4 == 8␤»15:05
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poohman moritz : thanks15:06
one more question - when reading from files, we do have the lines method where it reads each line one after the other - do we have a possibility to read with user defined delimiters15:09
\s* instead of \n - for example15:10
moritz user-defined limiters are possible, but not regexes15:11
https://docs.perl6.org/routine/open look for nl-in15:11
SmokeMachine poohman: `words`wouldn't do what you want?15:12
moritz but you can set it to [' ', "\n"] for example15:12
poohman moritz : thanks - will try nl-in15:16
Smokemachine : was trying to read Json records one after the other15:17
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lucasb AlexDaniel and others interested in the wiki idea: https://i.imgur.com/Iuq7VMC.png15:19
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moritz poohman: json can be completely without whitespace between tokens15:23
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Geth ¦ perl6.org: zoffixznet self-unassigned Implement Perl 6 Academy for use as call to action on marketing pieces https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/issues/10715:29
¦ marketing: zoffixznet self-unassigned Material to include in "Perl 6 Starter Kit" https://github.com/perl6/marketing/issues/1415:31
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poohman moritz : I was using the JSON::Class package and that writes one line after the other - so I am tryng to read it back15:34
moritz poohman: but then reading line by line is more correct than splitting on any whitespace, no?15:35
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poohman so trying to have one record in one line and then read the each line to feed it to from-json15:36
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moritz that's a pretty common approach, yes15:46
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holyghost eco: AI::Agent15:56
buggable holyghost, AI::Agent 'AI network Agent system': http://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/H/HO/HOLYGHOST/Perl/AI-Agent-0.2.1.tar.gz 1 other matching results: https://modules.perl6.org/s/AI%3A%3AAgent 15:56
holyghost eco: AI::Agent::Music15:56
buggable holyghost, Nothing found15:56
holyghost I hope AI::Agent and AI::Agent::Music compiles15:57
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scimon holyghost : Just got Install [FAIL] for AI::Agent:ver<0.1.24>:auth<CPAN:HOLYGHOST>:api<1>: Failed to open file /home/sproctor/.zef/store/AI-Agent-0.1.24.tar.gz/AI-Agent/lib/AI/Learn/NESMusicAgent.pm6 trying to install.16:03
Have you looked at App::Mi6? It's GREAT module development.16:06
jmerelo scimon: you got DM'd16:06
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Altreus capital S/// is return-a-copy, right?17:14
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timotimo yes17:15
stmuk_ woolfy: Thanks! I'm hoping things will calm down soon17:22
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El_Che stmuk_: for max 6 months, sure.17:28
Altreus so I should be able to do $a = $a.lc.trim ~~ S///17:29
Correct? :s17:29
El_Che stmuk_: how is star coming along. We've had sole questions last week17:29
timotimo that will not do what you hope for, Altreus17:30
El_Che some17:30
timotimo it'll take the result of the S/// and smartmatch it against the LHS, though it will set the LHS as the $_ of the RHS17:30
El_Che tablet typing sucks17:30
timotimo so essentially it'll result in False, unless the substitution did nothing in which case it would result in True17:30
Altreus Is that because LHS of ~~ is not a variable?17:32
not bindable, or some similar concept?17:32
timotimo no, it's because S/// is an operator that immediately does something17:32
Altreus But I thought it did it to the LHS of ~~17:33
otherwise surely it can only ever apply to $_17:33
tony-o lizmat++17:33
Altreus which is not true of lowercase s///17:33
tony-o just read the blog17:33
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Altreus See17:36
I told this non-programmer chap that in Perl6 we'd use ~~ instead of the .subst method17:36
But now I'm thinking maybe not17:36
I was like why use a method when there's an operator17:37
timotimo i notice that i'm confused17:37
i don't have a good explanation for why S/// and s/// behave so differently17:37
Altreus tsuyoki naritai? did I get that right17:37
timotimo paamayim nekudotayim17:38
Altreus I did PHP for 4 years. You'll have to try harder than that.17:38
timotimo i was not familiar with your term until now17:39
moritz timotimo: the explanation has to do with smart-matching17:39
timotimo moritz: s/// on its own also operates immediately, doesn't it?17:39
moritz timotimo: it does17:39
timotimo so the ACCEPTS method is called on the result of that, right?17:39
moritz yes17:40
but s/// can just return True17:40
timotimo oh17:40
moritz and True.ACCEPTS(anything) is always True17:40
timotimo that makes total sense17:40
moritz but S/// just returns the modified string17:40
which is then passed to $lhs.ACCEPTS(...), where it's lost17:40
Altreus total sense to you maybe17:42
:P17:42
This implies that $_ will be modified if I do $a ~~ s///17:42
timotimo it's true!17:43
Altreus It seems to me the whole point of doing that is to use $a *instead* of $_17:43
on account of how I also write Perl517:43
this seems naughty17:43
timotimo that's right17:43
~~ binds $_ for you only in the right-hand-side of itself17:43
so you don't have to my $_ := $a manually17:43
Altreus ah!17:44
so $a ~~ S/// is actually S'ing $a, but that returns a new $a, which is discarded17:44
Whereas the lowercase s does ... something else, which $a can ACCEPT and thereby modify itself?17:44
timotimo still not quite17:44
let me try to desugar it somewhat17:44
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timotimo $a ~~ S/// works a lot like this: my $_ := $a; my $result = S///; return $result.ACCEPTS($a)17:45
since S/// doesn't touch $_, it has no visible effect to the outside17:45
and the result string will be used as the thing to smart match $a against17:46
so you want the binding of $_, but not the match behaviour of ~~17:46
that's why rakudo (should?) suggests using "given" instead17:46
Altreus it did do that17:47
and we followed suit17:47
so the "side-effect" of mutating $_ is actually fine because ~~ gives us a super-local $_ for the purpose17:47
Is .subst an acceptable alternative?17:48
It seems a bit javascripty but I guess JS can be right sometimes17:48
timotimo subst is an acceptable alternative17:49
another is S[...] = ...17:49
which is super funky17:49
moritz wait what?17:49
timotimo that doesn't exist?17:50
m: my $_ = "hello"; my $result = S[ll] = 99; say $result; say $_17:50
camelia rakudo-moar 130cc8178: OUTPUT: «Potential difficulties:␤ Redeclaration of symbol '$_'␤ at <tmp>:1␤ ------> my $_ ⏏ = "hello"; my $result = S[ll] = 99; say ␤he99o␤hello␤»17:50
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timotimo m: $_ = "hello"; my $result = S[ll] = 99; say $result; say $_17:50
camelia rakudo-moar 130cc8178: OUTPUT: «he99o␤hello␤»17:50
timotimo m: $_ = "hello"; my $result = S[l] = $++; say $result; say $_17:50
camelia rakudo-moar 130cc8178: OUTPUT: «he0lo␤hello␤»17:50
timotimo m: $_ = "hello"; my $result = S:g[l] = $++; say $result; say $_17:51
camelia rakudo-moar 130cc8178: OUTPUT: «he01o␤hello␤»17:51
timotimo m: $_ = "hello hello hello"; my $result = S:g[l] = $++; say $result; say $_17:51
camelia rakudo-moar 130cc8178: OUTPUT: «he01o he23o he45o␤hello hello hello␤»17:51
moritz it just seems very weird to use an *assignment* to trigger a non-destructive substitution17:51
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timotimo :D17:51
i did say it's super funky17:51
Altreus I think I understand more things17:53
Possibly not S[]17:53
timotimo :D17:53
Altreus unless I just pretend it's Perl5's substr all over again17:53
timotimo how does that work?17:53
do you assign into the result of a substr call to modify a string?17:53
moritz substr($a, $from, $to) = $replacement17:53
Altreus yes17:53
timotimo ah17:53
yeah, we do have substr-rw17:54
moritz it's even *more* funky than that17:54
Altreus but you can also just provide the replacement as the 4th parameter17:54
moritz S[...], I mean17:54
timotimo yeah, the thing about S[...] = ... is that it thunks the RHS17:54
moritz because with s[...] = ... and the upper-case form, the right-hand side is evaluated for each match17:54
Altreus well the other thing is that you had to set $_17:54
I can do that anyway :P17:54
I could have done that to solve my original question :D17:54
wait hang on, this means that part of what I had was my $_ := $a.lc.trim;17:55
I feel like there's a better way hiding in here17:56
timotimo i'm not sure what code you're currently at, and what's bothering you about it17:56
Altreus sorry, I was just thinking that when I did $a.lc.trim ~~ S///, the smartmatch put the trimmed string in $_17:56
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Altreus which means even though the expression looks immutable I could have used s/// on it ... which makes me feel like I could have got the mutated string more easily somehow17:57
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timotimo oh17:57
m: my $a = " HELLO "; $a.lc.trim ~~ s/ll/0/; say $a;17:58
camelia rakudo-moar 130cc8178: OUTPUT: «Cannot modify an immutable Str (hello)␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»17:58
timotimo you can not use s/// there17:58
it binds to $_ rather than assigning to it17:58
Altreus That's a concept I'm still trying to get installed into firmware17:59
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timotimo binding and first-class lvalues is quite a thing18:03
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mst AlexDaniel: if sigyn eats a bot, you can '/msg sigyn unkline nick' while +o, or you can pok me or other staff in #freenode18:09
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mst heh18:54
weird connections, 2018 edition: somebody I was talking to from a completely unrelated channel is about to wave at Dan Sugalski from me18:54
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[Coke] oh, hi dan.18:56
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tony-o 19:04
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Kaiepi finally got zef reinstalled!19:07
the problem was a segfault in the code i was writing that was silent19:07
mst Crouching Tiger, Hidden Segfault19:09
pirateFinn mst: Compiling Tiger, Hidden Segfault19:10
Currently lacking more amusing words that sound like Tiger19:11
buggable New CPAN upload: LibUUID-0.2.tar.gz by CTILMES https://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/C/CT/CTILMES/Perl6/LibUUID-0.2.tar.gz19:11
tadzik timer?19:11
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boris bye19:19
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leont Honestly, that ticket is harmful and depressing19:42
And embarrassing19:42
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leont I'm not sure what's going on in people's heads, but IMNSHO closing it until everyone can adult again would be preferable over letting this continue19:45
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jdv79 where's dan19:50
i went to a parrot talk of his at mit way back in the day. so long ago.19:50
tony-o leont: #33 ?19:52
lizmat will not be the one closing #3319:53
El_Che link?19:53
the old perl5 tracker thingie?19:53
tony-o it's issue #33 on the gh rakudo repo19:53
El_Che thx19:53
mst https://github.com/perl6/user-experience/issues/3319:53
tony-o mst++19:53
El_Che ow19:54
it looks like a reddit discussion19:54
leont 317 people including me could technically do just that, I just don't quite feel like I have to mandate to do so by myself19:54
mst El_Che: the reddit threads have been much more pleasant tbh.19:54
El_Che yeah, you and stmuk agreeing and all19:55
it's christmas time already19:55
mst that or the apocalypse19:55
or given the drama llama infestation, possibly the alpacalypse19:56
tony-o lol19:56
El_Che after 1 too many family come together I kind of wish for the apocalyps19:56
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masak this is #perl6, we don't do Apocalypses19:58
jdv79 what do we do then?19:58
El_Che drama19:59
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mst which day was bingo again?19:59
El_Che thursday mostly except when it's fajita evening19:59
does php5 era code run unaltered on php7?20:00
asking for a friend20:00
jdv79 i doubt it20:00
El_Che "damn", she exclaims20:01
jdv79 got tests? :)20:01
it might be small changes20:01
*only*20:01
mst I've got to admit, that thread basically seenms to be "a bunch of people very clearly need to have a conversation ... but really aren't in a mental state where they can have that conversation constructively currently"20:02
El_Che it's actually a third party app: http://cnmonitor.sourceforge.net/20:02
needs php5 according to the doc, but I see sec support end in december for php520:02
(I could run centos, they will support it for ever :) )20:02
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El_Che s/I/she/ :)20:03
jdv79 i'd just try it20:03
php is a shit storm overall though so good luck20:03
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El_Che yeah, I want to move it to a container, but I need to figure how to add support for SAML or OpenID-connect20:03
probably through a apache module in front20:04
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jdv79 i've never had less fun than when i php20:05
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El_Che jdv79: the time I used php was for calling a perl5 script with an include :)20:05
jdv79 that sums it up pretty much20:05
El_Che cgi on the cheap20:05
:)20:05
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leont I closed it. foregiveness > persmission20:09
SmokeMachine How can I make my custom sequence, when `my @a = MyCustomSequence.new` make @a be lazy?20:09
Geth ¦ ecosystem: shintakezou++ created pull request #415: Add Xmav::JSON to ecosystem 20:10
¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/pull/41520:10
leont my @a := MyCustomSequence.new is the easiest way I think20:11
El_Che Without going into the core issue (I have vent my opinion), one must wonder how silly we must look from the outside20:11
SmokeMachine m: my @a = Seq.new: ^Inf .iterator; say @a.is-lazy # like this, but not with Seq...20:11
camelia rakudo-moar cbbe16edd: OUTPUT: «True␤»20:11
El_Che s/vent/vented/20:11
mst happily I don't think the outside is really paying attention20:11
SmokeMachine m: my @a = class :: does Sequence { method iterator { ^Inf .iterator } }.new; say @a.is-lazy # like this, but not with Seq...20:12
camelia rakudo-moar cbbe16edd: OUTPUT: «False␤»20:12
El_Che mst: you're making it worse :)20:12
mst: luckily for you, p5p seems to be less heated nowadays20:12
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AlexDaniel leont++ # emotions are indeed too high20:14
El_Che I think a cooling period is in order indeed, but ignoring the real problems is not a solution either. Luckily, it does not looks like a people problem to me, even if everyone seems entrenched in his/her position.20:18
The worst short term outcome is people burning out and leaving20:18
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stmuk_ El_Che: wrt to star answer. I put a RC tarball link on the channel several days ago but (rather like 6.d) it was lost in the noise20:18
El_Che it looks damn close to me20:18
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El_Che stmuk_: mea culpa indeed. Sorry for my part of the noise.20:19
stmuk_ http://pl6anet.org/drop/rakudo-star-2018.10-RC1.tar.gz20:19
El_Che thx, so we can inform star users asing about it20:19
AlexDaniel yeah, concerns and options should be discussed, but it does not seem to be possible right now20:19
stmuk_ I'll probably firm up and build binaries over the w/e20:20
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SmokeMachine m: my @a = Seq.new: ^Inf .iterator; my @b = class :: does Sequence { method iterator { ^Inf .iterator } }.new; say [@a.is-lazy, @b.is-lazy]20:20
camelia rakudo-moar cbbe16edd: OUTPUT: «[True False]␤»20:20
SmokeMachine why @a is las and @b isn't?20:20
stmuk_ (unrelated to current events since it was mentioned earlier in the year this will be my last star release for a while)20:20
AlexDaniel stmuk_++ # thank you for your work20:21
El_Che stmuk_: I hoped it was a heat of the moment decision and you'd reconsider. Whatever you do, thx for the work20:21
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jdv79 mst: except it was (is?) on hackernews20:23
mst the 6.d release announcement was20:23
jdv79 but meh20:23
mst I've not seen significant attention to the arguments20:23
jdv79 yeah, a handful of comments20:24
El_Che mst: it's completely gibberish from the ouside, as we don't even agree on the problem how can we get the solution right20:24
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El_Che funny how that is a good thing PR wise in this case20:24
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tony-o stmuk_++20:26
El_Che stmuk_: do you pass star to a new maintainer?20:27
leont Yeah the release announcement contained a fair amount of gibberish. A clear case of "we haven't done this before".20:27
It's a long list of titles without explanation. Some are grokkable by themselves, many are not.20:28
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stmuk_ El_Che: I have a nice hat here with a star on it20:32
El_Che: would suit you sir!20:32
:>20:32
El_Che hehe, I wasn't applying for the job :)20:33
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SmokeMachine m: my @a = Seq.new: ^Inf .iterator; my @b = class :: does Sequence { method is-lazy { True }; method iterator { ^Inf .iterator } }.new; say [@a.is-lazy, @b.is-lazy]20:39
camelia rakudo-moar cbbe16edd: OUTPUT: «[True False]␤»20:39
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masak m: say "netsplit"20:54
camelia rakudo-moar cbbe16edd: OUTPUT: «netsplit␤»20:54
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masak m: say "net" ~ "split"20:54
camelia rakudo-moar cbbe16edd: OUTPUT: «netsplit␤»20:54
timotimo m: say "net".split()20:55
camelia rakudo-moar cbbe16edd: OUTPUT: «Cannot resolve caller split(Str: ); none of these signatures match:␤ (Str:D: Regex:D $pat, $limit is copy = Inf;; :$v is copy, :$k, :$kv, :$p, :$skip-empty, *%_)␤ (Str:D: Str(Cool) $match;; :$v is copy, :$k, :$kv, :$p, :$skip-empty, *%_)␤ …»20:55
timotimo m: say "net".split("")20:55
camelia rakudo-moar cbbe16edd: OUTPUT: «( n e t )␤»20:55
jdv79 The Net was from another time20:55
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masak m: say "net".comb20:57
camelia rakudo-moar cbbe16edd: OUTPUT: «(n e t)␤»20:57
jdv79 what's the diff for in the output?20:58
timotimo empty string in the front and back20:58
masak split cares about gaps, and there are gaps at the ends20:59
comb cares about the characters, and there are only three of those20:59
timotimo welcome to the interнет20:59
jdv79 the "gist" output isn't very clear in that case20:59
the .perl version is much more clear21:00
whatever21:00
masak Python kinda has a point there, defaulting to some variant of .perl21:00
or rather, the REPL always prints the repr() of things, but print an array and all its contents is repr()'d21:01
jdv79 i get it. such is the gist tradeoff.21:01
timotimo we should perhaps move to using put almost all the time on here21:01
jdv79 but a newbie will be confused21:01
timotimo to hammer it into our branes21:01
m: put "net".split("")21:01
camelia rakudo-moar cbbe16edd: OUTPUT: « n e t ␤»21:01
timotimo that's even worse!21:01
masak heh21:01
jdv79 i can see this being in a faq "did you try .perl?"21:01
masak Perl 6 has way to many was to stringify things21:02
ways*21:02
jdv79 meh, they are kinda good in specific cases21:02
timotimo oh hey masak21:02
i have a question for you21:02
AlexDaniel branes xD21:02
timotimo since you tend to be quite good at explaining stuff, and know a whole bunch21:02
jdv79 maybe it should switch the stringification method contextually? :)21:02
timotimo what are the DWIMs and WATs of Any's "i'll behave as a list of a single item" behaviour?21:03
i seem to barely ever stumble upon that in actual code i write21:03
so when someone on twitter exclaimed "omgwtfbbq" i wasn't able to immediately give good examples of the trade-offs involved21:04
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SmokeMachine m: my @a = Seq.new: ^Inf .iterator; my @b = class :: does Sequence { method iterator { ^Inf .iterator } }.new.cache; say [@a.is-lazy, @b.is-lazy]21:50
camelia rakudo-moar cbbe16edd: OUTPUT: «[True True]␤»21:50
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SmokeMachine shuldn't PositionalBindFailover call `.cache` on `@b = SomeKindOfSequence.new`?21:51
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Xliff help, please? :) https://gist.github.com/Xliff/eb76df40cca74aaa829687ccd1e8e08222:16
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SmokeMachine m: class A does Sequence { method iterator is rw { ^Inf .iterator }; method cache {1, 2, 3} }; my @a = A.new; say @a # should it be a array of a list or just a list?22:44
camelia rakudo-moar cbbe16edd: OUTPUT: «[(1 2 3)]␤»22:44
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lucasb well, since the heated issue was closed and the weather looks calmer now I plan to submit a issue requesting a wiki, ok? It has nothing to do with naming, so no troubles :)22:48
done here: https://github.com/perl6/user-experience/issues/3422:50
ryn1x Is there a dynamic variable that shows if you are using v6.c from v6.d?22:52
m: use v6.c; say $*PERL;22:52
camelia rakudo-moar cbbe16edd: OUTPUT: «Perl 6 (6.c)␤»22:52
ryn1x m: use v6.d; say $*PERL;22:52
camelia rakudo-moar cbbe16edd: OUTPUT: «Perl 6 (6.d)␤»22:52
ryn1x oh...22:52
maybe it just doesnt work in the REPL...22:53
SmokeMachine m: class A does Sequence { method iterator is rw { ^Inf .iterator } }; my @a = A.new; say @a # is it expected?22:53
camelia rakudo-moar cbbe16edd: OUTPUT: «[(...)]␤»22:53
SmokeMachine shouldn't be [...]?22:54
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timotimo i think it needs to be Iterable to be "extracted" into the array22:58
SmokeMachine that's what I don't want...23:00
Id like something like Seq...23:00
m: my @a = Seq.new: ^Inf .iterator; say @a[0]23:00
camelia rakudo-moar cbbe16edd: OUTPUT: «0␤»23:00
timotimo m: say Seq.^mro23:01
camelia rakudo-moar cbbe16edd: OUTPUT: «((Seq) (Cool) (Any) (Mu))␤»23:01
timotimo m: say Seq.^mro(:all)23:01
camelia rakudo-moar cbbe16edd: OUTPUT: «Unexpected named argument 'all' passed␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»23:01
timotimo m: say Seq.^roles23:01
camelia rakudo-moar cbbe16edd: OUTPUT: «((Sequence) (PositionalBindFailover) (Iterable))␤»23:01
SmokeMachine PositionalBindFailover makes the trick23:01
timotimo see, Sequence doesn't imply Iterable23:01
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SmokeMachine https://rakudo.party/post/Perl-6-Seqs-Drugs-and-Rock-n-Roll#stashintothecache23:02
m: say Sequence.does: PositionalBindFailover23:02
camelia rakudo-moar cbbe16edd: OUTPUT: «True␤»23:02
timotimo assignment isn't binding23:02
the PBF will happen when you pass something to a function or method for example if there's an @-sigiled parameter23:03
SmokeMachine m: my @a = Seq.new: ^Inf .iterator23:03
camelia rakudo-moar cbbe16edd: ( no output )23:03
SmokeMachine m: my @a := Seq.new: ^Inf .iterator23:03
camelia rakudo-moar cbbe16edd: OUTPUT: «Type check failed in binding; expected Positional but got Seq (?)␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»23:03
SmokeMachine timotimo: I think the name is bind, but it works for assignment... ^^23:04
timotimo perhaps it only works for the binding we have for signatures23:04
ryn1x Is it possible to `use v6.c` in the repl?23:04
SmokeMachine m: my @a = Seq.new: ^Inf .iterator # timotimo: here its working...23:05
camelia rakudo-moar cbbe16edd: ( no output )23:05
SmokeMachine timotimo: thanks!23:07
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Xliff help, please? :) https://gist.github.com/Xliff/eb76df40cca74aaa829687ccd1e8e08223:21
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Xliff Nevermind. Figured it out.23:41
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Xliff Post updated with solution -- https://gist.github.com/Xliff/eb76df40cca74aaa829687ccd1e8e08223:52

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