IRCloggy #perl6 2019-07-15

Provider of IRC logs since 2005.

WARNING: As Freenode became unjoinable and lost all warnings in topics, we cannot log channels on Freenode anymore.

	2019-07-15
	→ Manifest0 joined	00:04
	← Manifest0 left	00:16
	→ aborazmeh joined	00:16
	← aborazmeh left	00:16
	→ aborazmeh joined	00:16
	→ Manifest0 joined	00:22
	← Manifest0 left	00:28
	→ Sgeo__ joined	00:31
	← Sgeo_ left	00:34
	→ Manifest0 joined	00:35
	← reach_satori_ left	00:36
	→ reach_satori_ joined	00:36
	← Manifest0 left	00:41
	→ Manifest0 joined	00:46
Geth	¦ problem-solving: AlexDaniel assigned to jnthn Issue What can and what cannot be changed in 6.c-errata? https://github.com/perl6/problem-solving/issues/62	00:48
	← Manifest0 left	01:05
	← aborazmeh left	01:10
	→ formalin14 joined	01:12
	→ Manifest0 joined	01:12
	← Manifest0 left	01:19
	→ Manifest0 joined	01:25
	← mowcat left	01:26
	→ jeromelanteri joined	01:28
	← epony left	01:30
	← Manifest0 left	01:44
	→ Manifest0 joined	01:49
	← Manifest0 left	01:58
	→ Manifest0 joined	02:03
devz3ro	have a perl6 newbie question, anyone have a minute? I'm sure it's simple	02:05
	← Manifest0 left	02:16
vrurg	devz3ro: if you're still here...	02:19
yoleaux	14 Jul 2019 08:12Z <SmokeMachine> vrurg: isn't Sparrow6 a replacement for puppet, ansible and stuff like that? pulp is much simpler! and about Red, no problem... take your time!	02:19
	14 Jul 2019 08:15Z <SmokeMachine> vrurg: thanks!	02:19
	→ Manifest0 joined	02:22
devz3ro	currently using - my @lines = 'list.txt'.IO.lines;	02:31
	the list.txt is a file of strings	02:32
	→ molaf joined	02:33
devz3ro	I'm trying to grep out some text in the list - for @lines -> $line { if $line.grep(/fox/) { put $line; } }	02:35
	this works	02:35
	what i'm trying to do is print out the next member of the array that follows that match	02:36
	someone pasted the answer before, but I don't think I asked it correctly, it only worked with integers	02:37
vrurg	First of all, you do eager reading here. I.e. you fetch all your lines into memory at once by assigning to an array. With $file.IO.lines.grep: /fox/ you'd have lazy fetching.	02:40
	Another thing: you apply .grep to a scalar $line. This is a perfomance loss because $line gets converted into a list first – .grep is a sequence method.	02:41
devz3ro	so if I have something like this	02:42
	my @lines = <the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog>;	02:42
	how do I print out a match of "fox" but also "jumps"	02:42
	without knowing what "jumps" is	02:43
vrurg	I'm trying to work out a working solution. Actually, what you need is .keys method applied to the output of .grep applied to .lines. .keys will provide you with indicies.	02:44
	But that's just a start point. Because for a lazy sequence which you get it would be tricky.	02:45
	I have another approach in mind by need to check if it works.	02:45
devz3ro	well this might make things easier	02:45
	cause in this text file I have, I think I can create hashes, just not sure how to do it for everything	02:46
	because every 2 lines should be paired	02:46
vrurg	What if two sequential lines match?	02:49
	You get the first and the following, then the second and the following? I.e. second match appears twice?	02:50
devz3ro	in my case they won't ever	02:50
	first line has text, second has a url, third has text, fourth has a url	02:54
	and so on, alternating	02:54
	for a lot of lines :)	02:55
	that's why I was relying on grep to match the line, but I need to grab the line immediately following which has the url that's paired with the match	02:55
vrurg	Too late, I'm making stupid mistakes. But basically your pipeline shoud be .lines.kv.grep( { what you need } )	02:57
	.kv gives you index => line Pair.	02:58
devz3ro	so back to this example	02:58
	my @lines = <the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog>;	02:58
	how can I pair them	02:59
vrurg	Oops. because it's .pairs, not .kv	02:59
devz3ro	or how could I print out "the quick" then "brown fox" ..	02:59
vrurg	my @l = "revision.p6".IO.lines; @l.pairs.grep( { .value ~~ /"==="/ } ).map( { @l[.key, .key + 1].join("\n") } ).join("\n").say	03:01
	That's it. It's drops lazyness, but does what you need.	03:01
	You can move on from this point. Unfortunately, I need to go.	03:02
devz3ro	will check, thanks for your time	03:03
vrurg	welcome! :)	03:04
	o/	03:04
	← El_Che left	03:04
	← formalin14 left	03:05
	→ formalin14 joined	03:06
	← tune left	03:07
	→ tune joined	03:07
	→ El_Che joined	03:10
vrurg	devz3ro: I've what was wrong wuth my solution for lazy sequence from lines.	03:11
	"revision.p6".IO.lines.pairs.grep( { state $last = False; my $p = $last; $last = .value ~~ /"==="/; $p \|\| $last } ).values».say	03:11
	It still could be optimized, but it demonstrates the principle.	03:12
devz3ro	is there anyway to loop this?	03:13
	with prompt being the grep	03:13
	I can probably figure that out	03:14
	this at least gets me started, thanks again	03:14
vrurg	welcome and now I'm certainly away! :)	03:15
	→ AlexDani` joined	03:19
	← AlexDaniel left	03:23
	← Manifest0 left	03:28
	← molaf left	03:29
	AlexDani` → AlexDaniel	03:30
	← AlexDaniel left	03:30
	→ AlexDaniel joined	03:30
	→ Manifest0 joined	03:35
	← Manifest0 left	03:39
	→ Manifest0 joined	03:47
	← formalin14 left	03:48
	→ sisar joined	03:55
sisar	I see that the docs.perl6.org uses the word 'routine' and 'method' interchangeably. Are they in fact the exact same thing?	03:56
	→ dominix_ joined	04:06
	← Manifest0 left	04:06
	← dominix__ left	04:10
	← \|Sno\| left	04:10
	← MilkmanDan left	04:11
	→ Manifest0 joined	04:11
	→ MilkmanDan joined	04:13
	← sisar left	04:15
	→ sisar joined	04:22
sisar	Oh, and also the words 'function' and 'subroutine'. Can someone please clarify them for me ?	04:24
	← Manifest0 left	04:24
	→ uzl joined	04:24
uzl	sisar: From what I understand, a routine is an umbrella term for both subroutines and methods.	04:25
sisar	And function?	04:26
uzl	Yeah, subroutines (subs for short) are the equivalent of functions in other programming languages	04:26
	sisar: A method could be considered a subroutine that knows the class it belongs to. However, Perl 6 makes this distinction more apparent, in relation to plain subs, by using the `method` keyword.	04:28
sisar	ok, that kinda makes sense.	04:29
	→ Manifest0 joined	04:29
sisar	thanks !	04:29
uzl	sisar: No problem!	04:29
sisar	Do you think it makes sense to ave this as an FAQ ? Is this confusion a common one ?	04:30
	*have	04:30
uzl	sisar: If you look at https://docs.perl6.org/language/functions, there's a short discussion about the use of the terms 'routine'.	04:33
sisar	uzl: ah ! Thanks!	04:34
uzl	sisar: So playing with Perl 6? Having fun?!	04:35
sisar	I used to play with it quite a few year ago. Trying to pick up again, since I've forgotten most of it. And those were my undergrad days. Now that I'm a more experienced programmer, I think i can appreciate it better.	04:37
	And yes, I'm having fun! :-)	04:37
uzl	Oh, great! The documentation will certainly be useful to help you remember stuff. Make sure to raise an issue (https://github.com/perl6/doc) should something in there be unclear or sound wacky ;).	04:40
	m: class A { has $.meth; submethod TWEAK { $!meth = &self::do }; method do { 'do' } }; A.new	04:41
camelia	rakudo-moar 4eb4c0c79: ( no output )	04:41
uzl	m: class A { has $.meth; submethod TWEAK { $!meth = &self::do }; method do { 'do' } }; A.new.meth	04:41
camelia	rakudo-moar 4eb4c0c79: ( no output )	04:41
uzl	m: class A { has $.meth; submethod TWEAK { $!meth = &self::do }; method do { 'do' } }; A.new.meth()	04:42
camelia	rakudo-moar 4eb4c0c79: ( no output )	04:42
uzl	m: class A { has $.meth; submethod TWEAK { $!meth = &self::do }; method do { 'do' } }; A.new.meth().put	04:42
camelia	rakudo-moar 4eb4c0c79: OUTPUT: «Use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context.␤Methods .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can be used to stringify it to something meaningful.␤␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤»	04:42
	← kaare_ left	04:43
	→ kaare_ joined	04:43
uzl	It seems nobody is around. I'll have to leave this question here lest I forget tomorrow.	04:45
	Is it possible to assign methods to variables and pass them around as arguments inside the class akin to subroutines? I know there are accessible by either self. or self! inside other methods but I'm wondering I can pass a method's code object as an argument to another method.	04:46
	uzl goes away.	04:48
	← uzl left	04:48
	← Manifest0 left	04:54
	→ Manifest0 joined	04:59
	← Manifest0 left	05:06
	→ Manifest0 joined	05:10
	→ Xliff joined	05:14
Xliff	\o	05:14
	m: say "a9873fd1" ~~ /<[0..9a..f]> ** {8, 17}$/	05:15
camelia	rakudo-moar 4eb4c0c79: OUTPUT: «｢d1｣␤»	05:15
Xliff	m: say "a9873fd1" ~~ /<[0..9a..f]> ** 8$/	05:15
camelia	rakudo-moar 4eb4c0c79: OUTPUT: «｢a9873fd1｣␤»	05:15
Xliff	m: say "a9873fd1" ~~ /<[0..9a..f]> ** 17$/	05:15
camelia	rakudo-moar 4eb4c0c79: OUTPUT: «Nil␤»	05:15
Xliff	m: say "a9873fd1" ~~ /<[0..9a..f]> ** 8,17$/	05:15
camelia	rakudo-moar 4eb4c0c79: OUTPUT: «=== SORRY!=== ␤Unrecognized regex metacharacter , (must be quoted to match literally)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> say "a9873fd1" ~~ /<[0..9a..f]> ** 8 ⏏ ,17$/ ␤Unable to parse regex; couldn't find final '/'␤at <tmp>:1␤------> say "a9873…»	05:16
Xliff	m: say "a9873fd1" ~~ /<[0..9a..f]> ** {8,17}$/	05:16
camelia	rakudo-moar 4eb4c0c79: OUTPUT: «｢d1｣␤»	05:16
Xliff	How do I match 8 OR 17 chars?	05:16
	m: say "a9873fd1" ~~ /<[0..9a..f]> ** [8,17]$/	05:16
camelia	rakudo-moar 4eb4c0c79: OUTPUT: «=== SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Quantifier quantifies nothing␤at <tmp>:1␤------> say "a9873fd1" ~~ /<[0..9a..f]> ** ⏏ [8,17]$/ ␤»	05:16
Xliff	m: say "a9873fd1" ~~ /<[0..9a..f]> 8 \| <[0..9a..f]> 17]$/	05:16
camelia	rakudo-moar 4eb4c0c79: OUTPUT: «=== SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unable to parse regex; couldn't find final '/'␤at <tmp>:1␤------> /<[0..9a..f]> 8 \| <[0..9a..f]> 17 ⏏ ]$/ ␤ expecting any of:␤ infix stopper␤»	05:16
Xliff	m: say "a9873fd1" ~~ /[ <[0..9a..f]> 8 \| <[0..9a..f]> 17 ] $/	05:17
camelia	rakudo-moar 4eb4c0c79: OUTPUT: «｢a9873fd1｣␤»	05:17
Xliff	^^ That seems to take too many characters. Is there a shorter way?	05:17
	→ ufobat joined	05:18
	← MilkmanDan left	05:20
Xliff	m: say "a9873fd1" ~~ /[ <xdigit> 8 \| <xdigit> 17 ] $/	05:21
camelia	rakudo-moar 4eb4c0c79: OUTPUT: «｢a9873fd1｣␤ xdigit => ｢a｣␤ xdigit => ｢9｣␤ xdigit => ｢8｣␤ xdigit => ｢7｣␤ xdigit => ｢3｣␤ xdigit => ｢f｣␤ xdigit => ｢d｣␤ xdigit => ｢1｣␤»	05:21
Xliff	m: "a9873fd1" ~~ /[ <xdigit> 8 \| <xdigit> 17 ] $/; $/.Str.say	05:22
camelia	rakudo-moar 4eb4c0c79: OUTPUT: «a9873fd1␤»	05:22
Xliff	m: "a9873fd1" ~~ /[ <xdigit> 8 \| <xdigit> 17 ] $/; $/.say	05:22
camelia	rakudo-moar 4eb4c0c79: OUTPUT: «｢a9873fd1｣␤ xdigit => ｢a｣␤ xdigit => ｢9｣␤ xdigit => ｢8｣␤ xdigit => ｢7｣␤ xdigit => ｢3｣␤ xdigit => ｢f｣␤ xdigit => ｢d｣␤ xdigit => ｢1｣␤»	05:22
Xliff	m: "a9873fd1" ~~ /[ <xdigit> 8 \| <xdigit> 17 ] $/; $/.Str.say	05:22
camelia	rakudo-moar 4eb4c0c79: OUTPUT: «a9873fd1␤»	05:22
	→ MilkmanDan joined	05:22
Xliff	m: "a9873fd1" ~~ /(0[ <xdigit> 8 \| <xdigit> 17 ]) $/; $/say	05:23
camelia	rakudo-moar 4eb4c0c79: OUTPUT: «=== SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Two terms in a row␤at <tmp>:1␤------> <xdigit> 8 \| <xdigit> 17 ]) $/; $/ ⏏ say ␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ statement end␤ statemen…»	05:23
Xliff	m: "a9873fd1" ~~ /(0[ <xdigit> 8 \| <xdigit> 17 ]) $/; $/.say	05:23
camelia	rakudo-moar 4eb4c0c79: OUTPUT: «Nil␤»	05:23
Xliff	m: "a9873fd1" ~~ /( [ <xdigit> 8 \| <xdigit> 17 ]) $/; $/.say	05:23
camelia	rakudo-moar 4eb4c0c79: OUTPUT: «｢a9873fd1｣␤ 0 => ｢a9873fd1｣␤ xdigit => ｢a｣␤ xdigit => ｢9｣␤ xdigit => ｢8｣␤ xdigit => ｢7｣␤ xdigit => ｢3｣␤ xdigit => ｢f｣␤ xdigit => ｢d｣␤ xdigit => ｢1｣␤»	05:23
Xliff	:/	05:23
	¯\_(ツ)_/¯	05:23
	← sisar left	05:25
	← adu left	05:29
	← Manifest0 left	05:29
	→ Manifest0 joined	05:35
	← Manifest0 left	05:40
tadzik	woot, lizmat keynote \o/	05:42
	→ Manifest0 joined	05:44
	→ formalin14 joined	05:45
	→ Sgeo_ joined	05:45
	← Sgeo__ left	05:48
	← silug left	05:53
	→ silug joined	05:53
	← Manifest0 left	05:55
	→ epony joined	05:56
	← Sgeo_ left	05:58
	← jeromelanteri left	06:00
	→ Manifest0 joined	06:01
	← Manifest0 left	06:09
	→ Manifest0 joined	06:13
	→ ufobat_ joined	06:23
	← ufobat left	06:26
	← Manifest0 left	06:32
	→ Manifest0 joined	06:39
	← MasterDuke left	06:42
	→ ravenousmoose joined	06:48
	← [particle] left	06:50
	← notable6 left	06:50
	← sftp left	06:50
	← pierrot left	06:50
	← matiaslina left	06:50
	← benchable6 left	06:50
	← coverable6 left	06:50
	← ChoppedBacon left	06:50
	← joy_ left	06:50
	← zostay left	06:50
	← albongo left	06:50
	← riatre left	06:50
	← Altreus left	06:50
	← sjn left	06:50
	← f3ew left	06:50
	← DarthGandalf left	06:50
	← wbn left	06:50
	← spacedbat left	06:50
	← niceplace_ left	06:50
	← Seance[m] left	06:50
	← folex left	06:50
	← tyil[m] left	06:50
	← shareable6 left	06:50
	← committable6 left	06:50
	← reportable6 left	06:50
	← cosimo left	06:50
	← nine left	06:50
	← hobbs left	06:50
	← irdr left	06:55
	→ irdr joined	06:56
	← Manifest0 left	07:08
	→ domidumont joined	07:10
	→ Manifest0 joined	07:14
	← domidumont left	07:15
	→ DarthGandalf joined	07:16
	→ wbn joined	07:16
	→ spacedbat joined	07:16
	→ Seance[m] joined	07:16
	→ niceplace_ joined	07:16
	→ folex joined	07:16
	→ tyil[m] joined	07:16
	→ shareable6 joined	07:16
	→ committable6 joined	07:16
	→ reportable6 joined	07:16
	→ cosimo joined	07:16
	→ nine joined	07:16
	→ hobbs joined	07:16
	card.freenode.net set mode: +vvv	07:16
	← redhands left	07:16
	→ [particle] joined	07:16
	→ notable6 joined	07:16
	→ sftp joined	07:16
	→ pierrot joined	07:16
	→ matiaslina joined	07:16
	→ benchable6 joined	07:16
	→ coverable6 joined	07:16
	→ ChoppedBacon joined	07:16
	→ joy_ joined	07:16
	→ zostay joined	07:16
	→ albongo joined	07:16
	→ riatre joined	07:16
	→ Altreus joined	07:16
	→ sjn joined	07:16
	→ f3ew joined	07:16
	card.freenode.net set mode: +vvv	07:16
	→ domidumont joined	07:17
	← Manifest0 left	07:19
	→ Manifest0 joined	07:25
	← Manifest0 left	07:32
	→ Manifest0 joined	07:37
	→ Sgeo joined	07:38
	← Manifest0 left	07:44
	→ Manifest0 joined	07:49
	→ zakharyas joined	07:57
	→ radek joined	07:57
	→ dakkar joined	07:58
	→ noisegul joined	07:58
	← radek left	08:04
	→ aborazmeh joined	08:04
	← aborazmeh left	08:04
	→ aborazmeh joined	08:04
	→ radek joined	08:05
	← Manifest0 left	08:06
	→ Manifest0 joined	08:11
	← Manifest0 left	08:18
	→ rindolf joined	08:21
	→ Manifest0 joined	08:23
	← zakharyas left	08:26
	← DarthGandalf left	08:26
	← wbn left	08:26
	← spacedbat left	08:26
	← niceplace_ left	08:26
	← Seance[m] left	08:26
	← folex left	08:26
	← tyil[m] left	08:26
	← shareable6 left	08:26
	← committable6 left	08:26
	← reportable6 left	08:26
	← cosimo left	08:26
	← nine left	08:26
	← hobbs left	08:26
	← [particle] left	08:27
	← notable6 left	08:27
	← sftp left	08:27
	← pierrot left	08:27
	← matiaslina left	08:27
	← benchable6 left	08:27
	← coverable6 left	08:27
	← ChoppedBacon left	08:27
	← joy_ left	08:27
	← zostay left	08:27
	← albongo left	08:27
	← riatre left	08:27
	← Altreus left	08:27
	← sjn left	08:27
	← f3ew left	08:27
	→ abraxxa joined	08:28
	← irdr left	08:30
	→ sena_kun joined	08:30
	→ patrickb joined	08:30
	→ irdr joined	08:31
	← abraxxa left	08:33
	→ f3ew joined	08:35
	→ sjn joined	08:35
	→ [particle] joined	08:35
	→ joy_ joined	08:35
	→ ChoppedBacon joined	08:36
	→ pierrot joined	08:36
	→ notable6 joined	08:36
	→ coverable6 joined	08:36
	→ benchable6 joined	08:36
	→ sftp joined	08:36
	ChanServ set mode: +v	08:36
	ChanServ set mode: +v	08:36
	ChanServ set mode: +v	08:36
	→ Altreus joined	08:36
	→ zostay joined	08:36
	→ nine joined	08:36
	→ niceplace joined	08:36
	→ wbn joined	08:36
	→ cosimo joined	08:36
	→ hobbs joined	08:36
	→ reportable6 joined	08:36
	→ committable6 joined	08:36
	→ shareable6 joined	08:36
	← hobbs left	08:36
	→ hobbs joined	08:36
	ChanServ set mode: +v	08:36
	ChanServ set mode: +v	08:36
	ChanServ set mode: +v	08:36
	→ spacedbat joined	08:36
	→ zakharyas joined	08:36
	Altreus → Guest44051	08:36
	→ riatre joined	08:37
	→ matiaslina joined	08:37
	→ DarthGandalf joined	08:37
	→ folex joined	08:39
	← ufobat_ left	08:40
	→ c1nil joined	08:40
	→ Seance[m] joined	08:41
	← c1nil left	08:41
	→ p6doc joined	08:41
	→ tyil[m] joined	08:42
	tyil[m] → Guest1109	08:43
	← p6doc left	08:46
	→ abraxxa joined	08:49
	← Manifest0 left	08:54
	← radek left	08:56
	→ foldr joined	08:56
	→ Manifest0 joined	09:00
	← ravenousmoose left	09:01
	→ ravenousmoose joined	09:01
	← dakkar left	09:03
	← Manifest0 left	09:11
	← f3ew left	09:14
	← aborazmeh left	09:15
	→ Manifest0 joined	09:17
	← Manifest0 left	09:26
	→ bbkr joined	09:30
	→ Manifest0 joined	09:31
foldr	Is it possible to give Zef a list of packages and have it create an archive with those packages and all their dependencies in it?	09:31
lizmat	not afaik, but ugexe might know	09:32
foldr	I'm looking for a nice way to deploy a Perl 6 app to a server without running Zef on the server (I want all the dependencies to be inside my app's .deb file).	09:33
	→ dakkar joined	09:35
moritz	foldr: docker is the simplest way to do that	09:35
foldr	Oh no, nightmares.	09:36
	Ok, I'll figure something out.	09:36
	I think I'll just configure Zef to put the packages in a local directory and then ship that with my app.	09:37
moritz	if you writing something similar to dh-virtualenv for Perl 6, that would be very awesome :D	09:37
foldr	If I find the time I'll write a Nixpkgs thing for Perl 6 packages.	09:37
	Been on my todo list for a while but it's a lot of work.	09:39
El_Che	foldr: do you have root?	09:40
	← Manifest0 left	09:47
foldr	Yeah, otherwise I couldn't run apt-get install.	09:47
El_Che	I ask because rakudo is not yet relocable	09:48
foldr	Oh, I'll run it in a chroot anyway, with systemd RootDirectory.	09:48
El_Che	install rakudo-pkg on a staging server, install the needed modules as root in /opt/rakudo-pkg using the included zef and tar /opt/rakudo-pkg	09:49
moritz	didn't somebody make moarvm relocatble?	09:49
foldr	I build Rakudo with Nix so the path will be in /nix/store.	09:49
	← Black_Ribbon left	09:49
El_Che	ok, you need to build with that path then	09:49
foldr	My .deb file will contain a minimal file system and the Nix store, and I run it with systemd RootDirectory setting which sets up a chroot. :)	09:49
El_Che	(if you want to include the runtime there instead of sysmtewide)	09:50
	foldr: no experience with nix so far, more into containers in integration for my apps	09:50
	moritz: I think lizmat posted something about it, but I don't know rakudo supports it yet	09:50
lizmat	.ask jmerelo will the rendered chinese documentation also be linked from docs.perl6.org ?	09:51
yoleaux	lizmat: I'll pass your message to jmerelo.	09:51
foldr	El_Che: when you say install the packages with zef into /opt/rakudo-pkg, where would zef get the packages from?	09:51
	→ Manifest0 joined	09:51
foldr	If it gets them from GitHub or CPAN then that'd be a problem because I can't deploy when those are down or the package has been deleted.	09:52
	Which is why I'd like to have them inside my package when doing a release (failing release is better than failing deploy).	09:53
	What I think would work is: the release script calls zef install, with zef configured to store the packages in some specific temporary directory. Then, the release script copies them into the to-be-released archive, together with Rakudo and my own code.	09:54
lizmat	weekly: http://blogs.perl.org/users/ovid/2019/07/the-perl-conference-in-riga.html	09:55
notable6	lizmat, Noted!	09:55
foldr	Thanks for the help, I'll give this a try and see how far I can get :)	09:57
	The --contained flag may be helpful as well.	09:57
El_Che	foldr: I was thinking installing in /opt/rakudo-pkg but the provided root zef and create a new deb from /opt/rakudo-pkg. If you want to compile the runtime yourself, it can be off course an other dir	09:59
	zef will get the packages from the internet on your staging machine, not on the target host	10:01
	you can even remove zef from the dir at package time	10:01
foldr	Is /opt/rakudo-pkg some special directory?	10:02
	Ah, I see: https://github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg	10:02
El_Che	no, the one that I picked up for compiling rakudo	10:03
	the point is that /opt/rakudo-pkg is selfcontained	10:03
	all the deps are there	10:04
	and the only extra package is zef, which is configured to install in /opt/rakudo-pkg	10:04
foldr	But what about packages from modules.perl6.org?	10:04
El_Che	(root zef, there is also a user zef install script to install libs in your home)	10:04
	← BuildTheRobots left	10:04
El_Che	/opt/rakudo-pkg/bin/zef install blah	10:04
	it will download from there	10:05
foldr	Will it put those modules in /opt/rakudo-pkg too?	10:05
El_Che	yes	10:05
foldr	Ah thanks, makes sense.	10:05
El_Che	the recommended way is a user zef, for most use cases	10:05
	but the zef is there for global installs like your use case	10:06
	→ BuildTheRobots joined	10:08
foldr	Well I don't want a global installation of Rakudo on my server, because globals are the root of all evil. But since I'm in a chroot I can just put /opt/rakudo-pkg inside the chroot. :)	10:09
El_Che	yeah, it's not ideal for now. Things will get easier	10:09
	I'll re-evaluate stuff once rakudo is relocatable.	10:10
	for now the usecase I had in my mind was: regular system (os packages), docker (os packages) and build from source for everything else	10:11
	→ Sgeo_ joined	10:11
foldr	I'm basically doing Docker except without Docker and with systemd RootDirectory. :D	10:11
nine	El_Che: it's possible to build a relocatable rakudo	10:11
El_Che	nine: that wonderful news	10:12
	's	10:12
	← Sgeo left	10:14
nine	In fact I think that's even the default nowadays. There's a --no-relocatable Configure.pl flag	10:14
	→ jeromelanteri joined	10:14
nine	moritz: I wonder what the need for virtual env is with Perl 6? Considering that we can install multiple versions of a distribution.	10:14
El_Che	nine: I'll experiment with it	10:15
	← jeromelanteri left	10:15
	← sena_kun left	10:15
	→ jeromelanteri joined	10:15
moritz	nine: isolation	10:17
	nine: if I install several applications on one system, I don't want this to mask a missing depencency, for example	10:17
El_Che	I would use this soundtrack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mz5AEgE24o	10:18
	moritz: I would prefer a system where an app is packaged with all its dependencies, and why not, the runtie	10:19
	runtime	10:19
moritz	that's basically what dh-virtualenv does (all libraries, though not the runtime)	10:20
El_Che	well, without the complexity of an extra system	10:20
	no magic variables or links	10:20
	just like a jar or go binary (if runtime included)	10:20
	most env and brew system I came across are more of a development thing and not a deployment strategy	10:21
foldr	If your app can run in a chroot then relocatability is not an issue.	10:23
El_Che	yeah, but that doesn't solve the dependency problem. Deploying a jar or go binary is a bless. Deploying python or perl 5 and I want to stab in my own eyes	10:24
foldr	But if it's not, and not being able to relocate, then the trick is simple: use content-addressable storage.	10:24
	← ravenousmoose left	10:24
El_Che	foldr: the world moved to containers. Drop app, run it. No extra configs needed/desired	10:25
foldr	Yeah that works too, I haven't found a container solution without nightmares.	10:25
El_Che	foldr: I am not saying it's the best, but those are the expectation of people deploying your code	10:25
foldr	I'm not touching Docker with a ten foot pole anymore, I've learned my lesson.	10:26
El_Che	we've been running containers for ages, without trouble	10:26
	foldr: use podman	10:26
foldr	But chroot always worked, so I use that. :)	10:26
El_Che	foldr: if you can get it automated on scale, sure	10:26
tadzik	foldr: hehe, what happened?	10:27
	(with the lesson)	10:27
	→ mowcat joined	10:28
El_Che	(we build images with buildah, and run machines with devs with podman as Docker runtime. Evaluating podman for the Nomad cluster)	10:29
foldr	tadzik: disk filling up with old images, containers not starting, containers not connecting to each other, data being deleted that shouldn't be, and so on. I'm sure there are solutions to these problems, but my favorite solution is to just avoid it altogether.	10:30
El_Che	There is considerable investment to get it right	10:30
foldr	Whereas really the only isolation I want is the file system.	10:30
El_Che	we simplified the network and firewalling setup by using ipv6	10:30
	images are on a artifact server not on the hosts running the container	10:31
	so, yes, there is overhead work involved	10:31
	← daxim left	10:31
	→ daxim joined	10:32
tadzik	foldr: nodnod. To be fair, sounds like some of the problems you describe could be attributed to the misuse of docker and friends, but I do agree that docker is a bit tricky to get right and doesn't make the right thing very obvious	10:32
	not sure if/what is better than that, docker is the only real experience that I havei	10:32
El_Che	lots of infra required to get it right: load balancer, CI, git repos to tricker img building and deployment, orchestrator, shared storage (if needed), firewalling	10:34
	and I am probably forgetting the half	10:34
	artefact repository for images	10:34
tadzik	well, you don't neceserilly need all of this, fwiw	10:34
	I run a teamspeak server in a docker and it needed none of that :)	10:35
El_Che	security scanner for images (<--- this is nice)	10:35
	tadzik: of course, not. I run my home infra on containers and I don't have all that :)	10:35
tadzik	:)	10:35
El_Che	I meant for work-like-setups	10:35
tadzik	my experience doesn't reach far enough for anything inter-host	10:35
patrickb	El_Che, nine: The flag was renamed from --no-relocatable to --relocatable and rakudo defaults to building non-relocatable to not break the loads of edge cases that the relocatable build can not accomodate for.	10:36
tadzik	mostly just boils down to "let's slap this into a docker so it's less annoying"	10:36
El_Che	well, in my experience is better to handle inter container/inter host traffic through the load balancer	10:36
	patrickb: thx for the info. Relocable allows to create macos images and linux tar.gz. For the packages itself is it less relevant, I think	10:37
	although it would be cool to copy the runtime from the system when packaging an app	10:38
	patrickb: are this edge cases known? I can't think of one.	10:41
	← jeromelanteri left	10:45
nine	patrickb: ah, yes, that fits better with my memory. Tures out I haven't updated rakudo on my laptop for quite a while	10:52
	El_Che: yes, they appeared during the phase when relocatability was the default	10:52
	← Manifest0 left	10:54
	← patrickb left	10:56
	→ Manifest0 joined	10:59
	← Manifest0 left	11:03
	→ Manifest0 joined	11:09
bbkr	hi. will 2019.07 be relased this week?	11:09
El_Che	releasable6: status	11:10
releasable6	El_Che, Next release will happen when it's ready. R6 is down. At least 1 blocker. 666 out of 714 commits logged	11:10
	El_Che, Details: https://gist.github.com/fe6fe0769d4bda73426d2bef141e144f	11:10
El_Che	bbkr: it looks it's getting very close	11:10
bbkr	yay, IO::Socket::Async memory leaks fixes incoming :)	11:12
tyil	:o	11:12
	hype	11:12
	→ ravenousmoose joined	11:13
	→ nepugia joined	11:14
	→ ufobat joined	11:14
tyil	I have a sub in a module in which I use LogP6, and in the module I call get-logger("s").warn("warning"). if I call the sub, however, I see no output at all, and the docs aren't very clear to me as to why this is	11:14
	anyone here who is well versed in LogP6? :p	11:16
	← Manifest0 left	11:24
	← zakharyas left	11:27
	→ Manifest0 joined	11:29
	→ Sgeo__ joined	11:30
	← Sgeo_ left	11:33
	→ patrickb joined	11:35
	← Manifest0 left	11:35
foldr	How does Perl 6 know what to set $?DISTRIBUTION to? Does it derive the path from PATH6LIB?	11:36
	I couldn't find any docs on distribution/resources.	11:37
	Although https://docs.perl6.org/language/modules mentions distributions and file system layouts.	11:38
patrickb	El_Che: An example would be building Moar, NQP and Rakudo in separate prefixes.	11:40
	Or OpenBSD where relocatability is currently not supported.	11:40
	→ Manifest0 joined	11:41
	← Manifest0 left	11:49
foldr	It seems like it derives the path to the distribution either from the compunit's path or from PERL6LIB.	11:51
	→ dolmen joined	11:51
	→ gregf_ joined	11:52
foldr	Obviously from the former, yeah. Because PERL6LIB can consist of much more than that. :P	11:52
	← gregf_ left	11:53
	→ Manifest0 joined	11:54
	→ [particle]1 joined	11:57
	← [particle] left	11:58
	← Manifest0 left	12:07
	→ Manifest0 joined	12:12
	← Manifest0 left	12:24
	→ Manifest0 joined	12:30
foldr	p6: my &postfix:«->@» = { .List }; say [1, 2, 3]->@	12:35
camelia	rakudo-moar 4eb4c0c79: OUTPUT: «(1 2 3)␤»	12:35
	← formalin14 left	12:38
	→ formalin14 joined	12:39
ugexe	foldr: each CompUnit::Repository sets it however they know how	12:42
	when you do -I . instead of -I lib and there is a META6.json file then the meta6.json data is used	12:42
	with -I lib (which isn't pointing at a META6.json file) it must be derived as you noted	12:43
	with installed modules it does a variant of the former	12:45
foldr	Ah. I should write a META6.json file.	12:46
	← Manifest0 left	12:47
foldr	Oh that's really nice, mapping from package names to file names.	12:50
	Configuration over Convention :)	12:51
	→ cpan-p6 joined	12:51
	← cpan-p6 left	12:51
	→ cpan-p6 joined	12:51
	→ Manifest0 joined	12:52
	← Manifest0 left	12:57
foldr	I wonder why provides entries must include lib/ but resources entries must not include resources/.	12:59
	→ Manifest0 joined	13:01
	→ lucasb joined	13:09
	← formalin14 left	13:09
	→ zakharyas joined	13:14
	→ uzl joined	13:18
uzl	Hello! So I've a quite specific question about the MAIN sub.	13:20
	I've put it: https://github.com/uzluisf/question-main	13:21
patrickb	lizmat: ^ That might be one for you.	13:22
	→ pamplemousse joined	13:22
lizmat	weird way to ask a question, but will mention it in the P6W :-)	13:23
uzl	This is another question: https://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6?date=2019-07-15#l140	13:23
	lizmat: Yeah, I could've done here but irc isn't the best for long-ish question	13:24
	→ Sgeo_ joined	13:24
uzl	Would SO be a better alternative?	13:24
lizmat	uzl: there is also StackOverflow	13:24
	yes	13:24
	both questions are prime SO candidates :-)	13:25
uzl	lizmat: I'll do that then.	13:25
lizmat	uzl++	13:26
timotimo	https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Clutter/Apocalypses - is the apocalypse/exegesis/synopsis thing actually common? i first saw it for perl6	13:26
	← Sgeo__ left	13:28
patrickb	timotimo: I'm pretty sure it's a Larry invention.	13:28
	timotimo: And I can't imagine the clutter guys accidentally came up with the same scheme, so I suspect they copied from p6.	13:29
timotimo	cool	13:29
moritz	and larry stole it from the bible	13:30
	← Manifest0 left	13:41
	← zakharyas left	13:43
	→ Manifest0 joined	13:47
	→ sena_kun joined	13:51
	← Manifest0 left	14:06
	→ natrys joined	14:09
	→ Manifest0 joined	14:11
	← Manifest0 left	14:16
	← uzl left	14:21
	→ Manifest0 joined	14:21
	masak .oO( thou shalt not steal [except concepts and digital information, which is basically copying, so it's fine] )	14:21
El_Che	"Every artist is a cannibal/every poet is a thief/all kill for inspiration/and then sing about the grief." (U2, The Fly)	14:24
	:)	14:24
	→ Sgeo__ joined	14:28
	← pamplemousse left	14:28
	← Sgeo_ left	14:31
foldr	Poets are very good at obscuring their crimes.	14:34
El_Che	foldr: you should meet more Perl 6 programmers	14:35
	(who said something about bodies in the closet! Shut up!)	14:36
	→ antoniogamiz joined	14:40
	→ Sgeo_ joined	14:41
	→ mst_ joined	14:41
	← mst_ left	14:41
	→ mst_ joined	14:41
ugexe	foldr: because modules don't have to go into lib/ (although lots of tooling naively expects this)	14:43
	resources do have to go into a specific subdir because items under resources/libraries get special naming applied (foo -> libfoo.so)	14:44
	← mst left	14:44
	← Sgeo__ left	14:45
ugexe	it is also so a CompUnit::Repository can know where resources are located	14:45
	→ zakharyas joined	14:45
	→ Sgeo__ joined	14:46
ugexe	when you do -I $some-dir-without-meta6 CompUnit::RepositoryFileSystem assumes resources is in $some-dir-without-meta6.parent.child('resources')	14:46
	mst_ → mst	14:46
	← Sgeo_ left	14:50
	← Manifest0 left	14:50
	→ molaf joined	14:51
	→ Sgeo_ joined	14:52
foldr	ugexe++ thanks!	14:53
	foldr → rfold	14:55
	→ Manifest0 joined	14:55
	← domidumont left	14:55
	← Sgeo__ left	14:56
lizmat	weekly: https://dev.to/antoniogamiz/work-report-week-7-4dna	14:57
notable6	lizmat, Noted!	14:57
antoniogamiz	noisegul: thanks for the reporting!	15:05
	← Manifest0 left	15:06
antoniogamiz	s/reporting/report	15:06
	← __jrjsmrtn__ left	15:06
	→ __jrjsmrtn__ joined	15:11
	→ pamplemousse joined	15:11
	→ Manifest0 joined	15:12
	→ Sgeo joined	15:13
noisegul	antoniogamiz: Hey no problem, I'm actually unsure whether I was missing something there, so it's more like a question/report, depending on the situation.	15:13
	← natrys left	15:14
	→ Sgeo__ joined	15:15
	← Sgeo_ left	15:16
	← patrickb left	15:16
	← Sgeo left	15:17
antoniogamiz	noisegul: I have already published a new version that should be installed correctly	15:20
	at least in the CI environment it is installed without problems	15:20
noisegul	antoniogamiz: will take a look at it right away :)	15:21
	← goon_ left	15:22
	← pamplemousse left	15:24
	Guest44051 → Altreus	15:26
	← Altreus left	15:26
	→ Altreus joined	15:26
	→ cxreg joined	15:27
	→ pamplemousse joined	15:27
	← zakharyas left	15:33
TreyHarris	.tell tbrowder No, I'm an idiot (or rather, used a new Git interface I wasn't used to for a thing I don't do often--which is much the same as idiocy, anyway), and for the past year I thought I was pushing to origin when I was pushing to my private fork--nobody dropped any issues for the past year so I didn't notice. I'm trying to unspool them into stuff that can be reviewed easily. Give me a week	15:43
yoleaux	14 Jul 2019 23:40Z <tbrowder> TreyHarris: ^^^?	15:43
	TreyHarris: I'll pass your message to tbrowder.	15:43
	← Manifest0 left	15:45
	→ Manifest0 joined	15:49
	← pamplemousse left	15:52
	← molaf left	15:53
	← rfold left	15:56
	← abraxxa left	15:58
	← Manifest0 left	15:58
lizmat	and another Perl 6 Weekly hits the Net: https://p6weekly.wordpress.com/2019/07/15/2019-28-perl-6-documentation/	15:59
	← dolmen left	15:59
	→ Manifest0 joined	16:05
	→ dominix__ joined	16:06
tbrowder	TreyHarris: thnx, no rush, just checking!	16:07
yoleaux	15:43Z <TreyHarris> tbrowder: No, I'm an idiot (or rather, used a new Git interface I wasn't used to for a thing I don't do often--which is much the same as idiocy, anyway), and for the past year I thought I was pushing to origin when I was pushing to my private fork--nobody dropped any issues for the past year so I didn't notice. I'm trying to unspool them into stuff that can be reviewed easily. Give me a week	16:07
	← Guest1109 left	16:07
	→ Guest1109 joined	16:07
	← dominix_ left	16:10
	← khisanth_ left	16:10
	← Manifest0 left	16:17
	→ Sgeo_ joined	16:23
	→ Manifest0 joined	16:23
	→ khisanth_ joined	16:24
	← sena_kun left	16:26
	← Sgeo__ left	16:26
	→ sena_kun joined	16:27
	← antoniogamiz left	16:28
	← dakkar left	16:33
	→ redhands joined	16:35
	← Manifest0 left	16:44
	→ Sgeo__ joined	16:47
	→ b2gills1 joined	16:47
	→ [Sno] joined	16:48
	← b2gills left	16:49
	→ Manifest0 joined	16:49
	← Sgeo_ left	16:50
	→ b2gills joined	16:50
	← b2gills1 left	16:52
	→ b2gills1 joined	16:53
	→ cwilson joined	16:54
	← b2gills left	16:55
	→ b2gills joined	16:56
	← b2gills1 left	16:57
	→ b2gills1 joined	16:58
	← b2gills left	17:00
	→ b2gills joined	17:01
	← b2gills1 left	17:03
	← redhands left	17:03
	→ pamplemousse joined	17:05
	→ rfold joined	17:12
	→ goon_ joined	17:18
pamplemousse	lizmat++ #p6weekly	17:19
	→ domidumont joined	17:28
	→ sjm_uk joined	17:35
	→ pecastro joined	17:52
	← domidumont left	17:53
Geth	¦ problem-solving: AlexDaniel assigned to jnthn Issue Should `without` allow chaining? https://github.com/perl6/problem-solving/issues/63	17:53
	← Manifest0 left	17:54
	→ Sgeo_ joined	17:55
	← pecastro left	17:57
	← Sgeo__ left	17:58
	→ Manifest0 joined	17:59
Geth	¦ problem-solving: AlexDaniel self-assigned [WIP] Decluttering of the language and other things https://github.com/perl6/problem-solving/issues/64	18:05
	← Manifest0 left	18:12
	→ Manifest0 joined	18:17
	← sjm_uk left	18:17
	→ sjm_uk joined	18:20
	← Manifest0 left	18:27
	← sauvin left	18:28
	← irdr left	18:31
	→ Manifest0 joined	18:34
	→ irdr joined	18:37
tyil	matiaslina: thanks for the responses on github, I'll continue with playing around tomorrow :)	18:44
	→ wildtrees joined	18:45
matiaslina	you're welcome tyil :)	18:51
	just ping me if something comes up or leave an issue	18:51
tyil	will most certainly do ^_^	18:51
	if youre interested, I made Matrix::Bot using your Matrix::Client as a base for it (friends asked me to make a Matrix bot instead of an IRC bot)	18:52
matiaslina	already seen that on the weekly	18:54
	super cool!	18:54
	← sena_kun left	18:55
matiaslina	I can drop some tips tonight if you want	18:55
	→ sena_kun joined	18:55
noisegul	Are there Rakudo (not Rakudo Star) release builds for Windows currently?	18:56
tyil	matiaslina: would be much appreciated, I dont know Matrix as well as I do IRC :p	18:58
	← sena_kun left	18:58
	→ sena_kun joined	18:58
matiaslina	Will do then ^^	19:00
	I'm trying to keep the docs/ updated with descriptions and examples	19:00
	or in the examples/ directory	19:01
	so anyone can have some sort of guide :p	19:02
	← sena_kun left	19:03
	→ sena_kun joined	19:03
tyil	for now I'm already happy there's a module at all, so I don't first have to read through the entire API spec to make one :p	19:13
	→ redhands joined	19:16
AlexDaniel	tyil: oooooooooooooooooh	19:20
	tyil: niiiiiiice	19:20
	tyil: how similar is it to IRC::Client ?	19:21
tyil	I'm taking a lot of inspiration from it, making it plugin-based and using multi-subs for handling events	19:21
AlexDaniel	noisegul: no, but this is likely to change a bit later this year	19:21
tyil	I have the tiniest of working prototypes	19:22
	https://gitlab.com/tyil/sjon/blob/master/lib/Local/Sjon.pm6#L13	19:22
AlexDaniel`	test	19:22
AlexDaniel	:S	19:22
	the bridge is still very slow	19:22
tyil	matrix.org is very slow	19:22
AlexDaniel	or maybe that, yeah	19:22
tyil	their room told me I shouldn't make use of their api at all because its already overloaded	19:23
	(instead of just telling me where their docs are on their request limits)	19:23
noisegul	AlexDaniel: alright, thanks	19:23
AlexDaniel	well… is it possible to run your own bridge, or something?	19:24
tyil	I don't intend to take on the technical debt of setting up matrix	19:24
	and then maintaining it	19:24
AlexDaniel	yeah	19:24
	I run my own homeserver but maintaining bridges and stuff I don't want to do…	19:25
tyil	besides, there's also some technical issues that I would like to see resolved before considering it	19:25
	such as their current inability to trash old logs	19:25
	I'm not sure if they understand not everybody is going to rent an enterprise cluster just to chat	19:25
matiaslina	AlexDaniel: you can run your own bridges, but the IRC bridge on matrix.org works great for me, so I don't have the need	19:31
AlexDaniel`	well, have you noticed how slow it is?	19:32
	also there was a longstanding bug when some messages were simply not shown	19:32
	I think it was related to special characters in nicknames, and that was recently fixed	19:32
	but omg that bug was there for a loooooong time	19:32
matiaslina	lol, didn't even check what is the difference on matrix and on irssi	19:34
	I dont use irc that much :p	19:34
	but yeah, there was some time when the bridge was super buggy	19:34
	← Manifest0 left	19:41
TreyHarris	Does anyone here happen to know what on GitHub the little box badges on comment lines like "Member", "Owner", etc. are called? "badge" means something else to GitHub. (I know what they're for, I'm looking for wmhat they're called so I can find docs and APIs.)	19:41
Xliff	<bbkr> yay, IO::Socket::Async memory leaks fixes incoming :)	19:45
	bbkr: Where did you hear that?	19:45
	→ veesh joined	19:46
	→ Manifest0 joined	19:46
ugexe	TreyHarris: its something like Organizational Context	19:48
TreyHarris	ugexe: Hmm... I was specifically wondering if the Sponsor button could result in a vanity badge for participants in comment lists or commit lists like "Member" and "Owner", but if it's a "context" I'm guessing not	19:49
	→ patrickb joined	19:50
ugexe	thats what it was called in some UI component I used. or rather OrganizationalSomeComponentContext	19:51
	→ pecastro joined	20:11
	→ Itaipu_ joined	20:12
	← Itaipu left	20:12
	← TreyHarris left	20:14
	→ TreyHarris joined	20:16
	← sjm_uk left	20:18
	→ Itaipu joined	20:19
	← Itaipu_ left	20:19
	→ molaf joined	20:23
	→ Itaipu_ joined	20:24
	← Itaipu left	20:25
	dominix__ → dominix	20:26
	← dominix left	20:28
	← wildtrees left	20:29
	→ wildtrees joined	20:30
	← rfold left	20:40
	← Manifest0 left	20:48
	→ Manifest0 joined	20:48
veesh	is there a recursion limit in perl6?	20:50
	← robertle left	20:51
timotimo	yeah, your RAM	20:55
veesh	lol	20:57
	it doesn't seem to eat up my ram as fast as I thought it would	20:57
	learning about ackermann functions	20:57
	→ Black_Ribbon joined	20:58
	← lucasb left	20:58
timotimo	could be because it's slow :(	20:59
	the more frames on the stack, the more the GC has to do, but it shouldn't be that bad	21:00
patrickb	vrurg: Do you think you can find some time this week to have another look at the Mac spaces in path problem?	21:07
veesh	timotimo: it seems to run pretty fast, I'll check how slow this sort of thing is meant to be	21:10
	i'm memoizing, so i think it doesn't get so bad	21:10
	at least in terms of stack frames	21:10
masak	oooh! Ackermann function :D	21:11
	← Manifest0 left	21:11
masak	I have a real memory about that from my... well, not childhood really, but early formative years	21:12
	I grew up with Turbo BASIC (honk if you did, too)	21:12
veesh	i grew up with gamemaker 5....	21:13
	i feel young	21:13
masak	in the standard distribution of Turbo BASIC, there was a file called ACKERMAN.BAS	21:13
	← patrickb left	21:14
El_Che	isn't .BAS basic?	21:15
masak	it is.	21:15
El_Che	ah, lol	21:15
	I read "Turbo Pascal"	21:15
masak	I just downloaded a copy. it has detailed instructions for how to run it.	21:15
Xliff	Is there a perl6 equivalent to the command: "openssl rsautl -decrypt -inkey $keyFile"?	21:15
El_Che	I need to stop fast reading stuff	21:15
ugexe	my first program was in the tile-based workflow programming language in the ps1 game Carnage Heart	21:15
masak	my version, as I reacall it, just had the exclamation "ACKERMANN!"	21:15
	I was very confused	21:15
	to me as a 12-ish-year-old, the rest of the code was just random math. not sure I even paid attention to the weird recursion in the middle.	21:16
El_Che	I only remember GORILLAS.BAS	21:16
masak	that's QBasic/QuickBasic	21:16
Xliff	masak: honk	21:16
masak	El_Che: this was before that	21:16
	Xliff: <3	21:16
Xliff	Ahhh... Delphi and .PAS	21:17
	→ Manifest0 joined	21:17
Xliff	What was that.... eventually it all became Borland, right?	21:17
masak	El_Che: I did do some Turbo Pascal too, though. TP was fast. both in compilation and in the compiled machine code.	21:17
ugexe	Borland C++ Builder was good	21:17
masak	Xliff: Borland made Turbo BASIC.	21:17
	I still have the manuals at home. massive nostalgia value.	21:18
Xliff	masak: Right. They also created Delphi and Turbo Pascal.	21:18
masak	right.	21:18
El_Che	Lazarus was the name on linux later on, I think	21:18
masak	and Anders Hejlsberg is hiding in there somewhere.	21:18
Xliff	Got my first real programming job working in Delphi.	21:18
ugexe	the VCL was great for bangin out windows apps	21:19
masak	looking at ACKERMAN.BAS now, it's pretty clear to me they were using it as a benchmark and not much else	21:19
Xliff	masak: Where are you looking at to see ACKERMAN.BAS?	21:20
masak	maybe also for checking correctness (since they would've known the correct answer to `FNack%(3,6)`)	21:20
	Xliff: I googled "ACKERMAN.BAS Turbo Basic" and got a hit on some .ua FTP site	21:21
Xliff	Oh, nice!	21:22
	.oO( So why am I getting Bas Ackermann? )	21:22
masak	Turbo BASIC was _very_ formative for me	21:23
	looking back, I must've written hundreds of small programs/games/whatever	21:23
	and somewhere even picked up patterns and good-ish habits	21:24
	I will forever keep hoping that Dijkstra was wrong about BASIC forever corrupting programmers beyong repair... :P	21:24
	beyond*	21:24
Xliff	LOL	21:24
masak	also interesting from a Perl perspective: Turbo BASIC had sigils, but it put them at the end	21:25
	I will just note that while I was a BASIC programmer, I never much cared about the sigils. I guess they felt like excessive type annotations to me at the time	21:26
	it was definitely possible to just code without them	21:26
Xliff	Wow! It was less than 30 lines!	21:26
masak	yeah. I mean, it's fairly readable. BASIC is an Algol, after all.	21:26
	"END IF". boy, does that take me back.	21:27
	these days, I spell that `}` :P	21:27
Xliff	Yes. Nice nostalgia hit, but I will keep my Perl6. :P	21:27
	And that's one less EC2 action down. I think I'm in the 60's now.	21:28
	64	21:28
	That's out of.... lots.	21:28
masak	oh! interesting tidbit related to that: I believe Dylan got that one right. in Dylan, you can write either `end`, or `end module airport` (repeating the opener)	21:29
	meanwhile, in bash: `fi`, `esac` -- a relic from Algol68	21:30
	in many ways we're very much similar to what Algol60 gave us, syntactically. in other ways not... :)	21:33
	← pecastro left	21:36
	→ netrino joined	21:40
masak	re "I will keep my Perl 6" -- yes, of course	21:42
	I feel the biggest difference between the BASICs and Pascals back then, even C implementations; and the modern-ish dynamic languages of today: Perl, Python, Ruby, etc -- is that dynamic allocation became a lot more natural and a lot less "ritualistic"	21:43
	when the "stigma" of allocation goes away, one is much more likely to allocate something dynamically	21:43
	think about JavaScript: just by writing `{}`, you've dynamically allocated a new object on the heap. you hardly felt it.	21:44
	significantly, I meet junior programmers daily these days who simply don't consider that cost. to them, a dynamic allocation is no worse than a static one.	21:45
Xliff	m: (15..30).Str.say	21:47
camelia	rakudo-moar 63a4d958e: OUTPUT: «15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30␤»	21:47
Xliff	Crap. I was hoping to get just the min/max value from that. :/	21:47
	m: (15..30).min.say	21:51
camelia	rakudo-moar 63a4d958e: OUTPUT: «15␤»	21:51
timotimo	m: (15..30).gist.say	21:51
camelia	rakudo-moar 63a4d958e: OUTPUT: «15..30␤»	21:51
Xliff	m: (015..030).min.say	21:52
camelia	rakudo-moar 63a4d958e: OUTPUT: «Potential difficulties:␤ Leading 0 has no meaning. If you meant to create an octal number, use '0o' prefix; like, '0o15'. If you meant to create a string, please add quotation marks.␤ at <tmp>:1␤ ------> (015 ⏏ ..030).min.say ␤ …»	21:52
Xliff	:(	21:52
	m: (15.. 30).min.say	21:52
camelia	rakudo-moar 63a4d958e: OUTPUT: «15␤»	21:52
wildtrees	if .* on m:ex// is matching too much, how do I exclude matching a few characters from .* ?	21:59
sena_kun	.*?	21:59
	or do you want something else?	22:00
	can you provide an example?	22:00
	m: say 'asdf' ~~ m/.*/;	22:01
camelia	rakudo-moar 63a4d958e: OUTPUT: «｢asdf｣␤»	22:01
sena_kun	m: say 'asdf' ~~ m/<-[f]>/;	22:01
camelia	rakudo-moar 63a4d958e: OUTPUT: «｢a｣␤»	22:01
sena_kun	m: say 'asdf' ~~ m/<-[f]>*/;	22:01
camelia	rakudo-moar 63a4d958e: OUTPUT: «｢asd｣␤»	22:01
sena_kun	^ everything but 'f'	22:01
wildtrees	sena_kun, yea that is working nicely now, thanks	22:03
	timotimo pays no respects	22:03
	← Manifest0 left	22:10
	← noisegul left	22:13
	→ Manifest0 joined	22:15
	← Manifest0 left	22:20
sena_kun	m: enum A <One Two>; say A('One');	22:20
camelia	rakudo-moar 63a4d958e: OUTPUT: «(A)␤»	22:20
sena_kun	what is DWIM here?	22:20
	m: enum A <One Two>; say A(A.enums<One>); # hmmm	22:22
camelia	rakudo-moar 63a4d958e: OUTPUT: «One␤»	22:22
ugexe	m: enum A <One Two>; say +A::Two	22:22
camelia	rakudo-moar 63a4d958e: OUTPUT: «1␤»	22:22
SmokeMachine	m: use Pod::To::Markdown; use MONKEY-SEE-NO-EVAL; say EVAL "=head bla\n$=pod"	22:22
camelia	rakudo-moar 63a4d958e: OUTPUT: «===SORRY!===␤Could not find Pod::To::Markdown at line 1 in:␤ inst#/home/camelia/.perl6␤ inst#/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site␤ inst#/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor␤ inst#/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-…»	22:22
SmokeMachine	m: use Pod::To::HTML; use MONKEY-SEE-NO-EVAL; say EVAL "=head bla\n$=pod"	22:23
camelia	rakudo-moar 63a4d958e: OUTPUT: «===SORRY!===␤Could not find Pod::To::HTML at line 1 in:␤ inst#/home/camelia/.perl6␤ inst#/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site␤ inst#/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor␤ inst#/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/sh…»	22:23
	← rindolf left	22:26
	→ Manifest0 joined	22:27
	← veesh left	22:27
	← Manifest0 left	22:45
Xliff	How can you set and export and env variable in Perl6?	22:51
	← pamplemousse left	22:51
	→ Manifest0 joined	22:51
	← Sgeo_ left	22:54
	→ Sgeo_ joined	22:54
	← sena_kun left	22:59
vrurg	.tell patrickb Can't promise, but I think it will be possible.	23:04
yoleaux	vrurg: I'll pass your message to patrickb.	23:04
timotimo	Xliff: you just put it into the env hash, doesn't that work?	23:04
Xliff	No.	23:07
	I had to add it to the command line invocation, or my code wouldn	23:08
	*wouldn't work	23:08
ugexe	m: %*ENV<FOO> = 42; say qx/echo $FOO/	23:10
camelia	rakudo-moar 63a4d958e: OUTPUT: «42␤␤»	23:10
Xliff	Hmm....	23:13
	OK. I will circle back, later.	23:13
	ugexe++	23:13
	.oO( But when I tried it... it didn't work... )	23:14
	https://github.com/Xliff/p6-Amazon-AWS-EC2/commit/ce9ce3bd2da0d8a2cb023802ce27b2d6c1ea0714	23:14
ugexe	are you spawning a process through nativecall?	23:14
Xliff	No.	23:14
	235,193 lines of Perl6 code in the last 13 months. :) \o/	23:15
	← netrino left	23:22
timotimo	haha, what's with the 30 empty lines at the end of META6.json	23:23
Xliff	timotimo: LOL. Somehow those keep getting added when I run the dependencies script. That script the files to META6.json, automatically.	23:24
	Thought I had fixed that. :P	23:24
	Plus... META6.json is not counted in code line counts. :)	23:24
	HAH! Think I found it.	23:27
	→ Sgeo__ joined	23:29
Xliff	timotimo: https://github.com/Xliff/p6-GtkPlus/commit/5b384b0482375a2cd1ac0ff3aa88befab1f12ed5	23:32
	← Sgeo_ left	23:32
timotimo	:)	23:32
	← Manifest0 left	23:37
	→ [particle] joined	23:40
	← [particle]1 left	23:41
	→ Manifest0 joined	23:43
SmokeMachine	Hi guys! is there a better way to do this? https://github.com/FCO/pulp/blob/master/lib/Pulp/Plugin/PodToMarkdown.pm6	23:46
	it's working, and it's README.md was created with this... but is there a better way to do that?	23:46
timotimo	have you had a look how mi6 does it?	23:47
SmokeMachine	timotimo: no, I haven't! good idea! thank you very much!	23:47
	timotimo: it seems to be almost the same (or am I loosing something?) https://github.com/skaji/mi6/blob/master/lib/App/Mi6.pm6#L137	23:49
timotimo	well, that's a good sign :)	23:50
SmokeMachine	timotimo: but it uses the file name (that I can't, because Im using "memory files"...)	23:50
	s/memory/virtual/	23:50
	timotimo: :)	23:51
	timotimo: thank you for you help! :)	23:51
	vrurg: Hi! was I wrong? wasn't sparrowdo a puppet alternative?	23:52
vrurg	SmokeMachine: No. My point was only to consider if it worth spending llimited resources on something what is already implemented. The key word is 'limited' here. :)	23:53
	Yet, anyway: you wanted to implement it and the result is very elegant, to my view!	23:54
SmokeMachine	vrurg: :) thanks... I'm having to use gulp at work, so what the best way to understand it than writing my own gulp? :P	23:55
	s/what/what's/	23:55
	→ aborazmeh joined	23:57
	← aborazmeh left	23:57
	→ aborazmeh joined	23:57

Logs Search ←Prev date Next date→

Channels Documentation